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If this topic interests you, please consider listening to the five interviews currently up at Mormon Stories Podcast. They are between John Dehlin and our LDS poet, Carol Lynn Pearson. Talk about a worthwhile four and half hours of listening…… maybe crying a little bit as well. A few months ago someone in Idaho had the child Jesus baptized and sealed to his parents, God the Father and his wife Mary. I can’t begin to tell you how much this action infuriates me. Talk about “Endless Genealogies.” Guess John the Baptist had no authority to baptize Jesus in the Holy Land. Guess God had no priesthood to accomplish his Plan to have a Savior born to save mankind. Tom Haws wrote:FenixDown, I really like your analysis! Very thoughtful and fresh. I really identified with the Spiritual Mormon and Reformer types.
Tom, I really like the titles which you identify with (Spiritual-Reformer). My current type, Extremely Old and Somewhat Senile. You can get away with a lot at church by carrying a cane, getting lost returning from the restroom (ha!). Also, I can make apostate statements in my SS class and everyone smiles. NOTE: this approach will not work with the younger crowd, they will think you are crazy!
Probably my most biggest grip about the church stance on marriage. They have distanced themselves so far from polygamy and any mention of it in our past, that the women who gave so much, who endured so much, who suffered so much, the wives of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor (and their ink), are no longer mentioned in church texts. They have become the “forgotten women” of the Church. It reminds one of the “forgotten boys of Short Creek. It stinks. History is history, it should never be rewritten. What killed this thread? I thought it was so important. I feel StayLDS is more than a chit’chat website. If we can offer information/links which will help hurting people, we would be about our Father’s business. If you ever served a Indian mission, and saw a half dozen young Apaches riding their burros across the desert to storm the church house, white shirts would be the least of your worries. I have great memories from my early days in the Lord’s church (not so much of late, in correlation structured times). I would knee with a humble man, in his Levi’s and worn boots, and bless the Sacrament any day. I mentioned Carol Lynn Pearson to my TBM ex (I had just watched the five amazing interviews). She immediately dismissed Ms. Pearson, as “a crazy lady.” I wondered if her attitude reflected what RS leadership might be offering up? I see Carol Lynn as a revered high priestess in the church. If a thousand women/mothers would join her quest to save lives, real change might come from SLC. She absolutely hit it squarely on the nail, “open the closets.” They needed to be aired out a long time ago… Brian, I read through it carefully. I am one of those who had placed copies of the original version on several Bishop’s desks. After a year though, not so much. I became concerned that It was offering false hope and perhaps creating more cognitive dissonance. I am therefore happy to see these changes introduced. There are still many members who need to leave the church and never look back. We must offer strong affirmations of good will & safe voyage to them. Probably most of our gay and lesbian members fall into that category, certainly the ones who are active in gay relationships.
I noted the change in title. I think I liked “How to stay in the LDS church” better. By using the formal name of the church (a trademark of the Corporation of the President), we agree with the church stance that the church name must never be shortened. I personally use “Mormon church” in explaining to those who ask about my spiritual quest, i.e., “cultural Mormon, a friend of the LDS church.”
SilentDawning, It sounds like you have a wonderful daughter. I would actively teach her about other churches and religions, how believing in them gives their followers good feelings and happy experiences also. I once conducted a discussion with my three adult sons. I offer the premise that “there never was an LDS church, that Joseph Smith lived and died a Presbyterian (like his mother).” I asked where my sons would be if a restoration never happened. My oldest son said, “Jacobean Priest (so well educated),” my middle son said, “A Buddhist (meditation thing),” my youngest son said, “Evangelical Protestant (they live their religion everyday).” It pleased me no end, because it meant they had caught my vision of diverse spirituality, that human kind (and their religions) are not so different. We all seek a clan, a tribe.
cwald, I agree with your statement above except for the timeline of 200 years. I think a policy decision will come much more rapidly. It only took thirteen years (?) after black Civil Rights for the prophet to say “the day for worthy males of all races has come concerning the priesthood.” If gay marriage becomes the law of the land, then I think that within a couple of decades, the church will follow suit. The church doesn’t like being antiquated, it is a PR problem of the first magnitude.
Just my opinion, senility is possible.
As the resident expert on sects and schisms, there have been five (5) LDS groups over the years which organized specifically for gays and lesbians. Two of them (both Salt Lake based) continue to exist. Also, AFFIRMATION, GAY AND LESBIAN MORMONS, is a social network that has tried to establish real dialogue with the church for several decades. It has chapters in many cities, even outside the USA. The Los Angeles chapter of AFFIRMATION once had several recognized LDS actors attending. A friend once reasoned that even if the LDS church were to accept gays into full fellowship, you would have to decide individually whether or not you wanted to go back to the church. He thought the AFFIRMATION gatherings were far more fun than normal Sundays at the ward house. SD: “such as bad laundry planning” and “I may even hold a fireside some day where the entry fee is you have to be wearing a colored shirt!”
Dang, outed again. I am such a geek when it comes to getting my shirts laundered prior to the Sabbath (though I like the mafia look – matching black tie, diamond stud pin).
I love your idea regarding the fireside. If I ever hold one, it will be topic which will have folks staring, such as, HOW MUCH DID YOU CONTRIBUTE TO THAT LOSER PROPOSITION 8, or WHO WILL FOLLOW PRESIDENT JAMES J. STRANG AS PROPHET, SEER AND REVELATOR? I once taught a gospel doctrine class who had 120 people show up most weeks. We had to meet in the cultural hall. It was obviously pre-coordination days, when a instructor had vast agency in what direction to lead the discussion. I miss those days…
My current path, totally a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I do love God, because Christ calls me to that role. I also love my fellowman. I used to call Jesus my elder brother. I don’t do it anymore. My connection has grown much deeper. Now I worship him, finding Hope and Grace in his goodness. I have older brothers. I respect them, but I don’t worship them. I don’t “always” even listen to them. Mostly this new devotion has evolved with my reaching three score and ten. Christ brings peace and calm to my soul. He is all I need. So what does your decision say regarding the black shirt I wear on a regular basis (I do switch out with a gray shirt and a light yellow occasionally)? There have been a few stares and even a comment or two, and I have not been called forth to give the benediction of late. Probably some of my ward members figure its senility. I occasionally wear dark blue Levi’s and white tennis shoes as well (always with a nice sports coat and tie). Did you ever wonder if half the males showed up with colored shirts one week, what leadership would say (or not say)? There is an old saying, “When you are 25, you worry what folks think about you, when you are 50, you don’t give a damn what they think, when you are 75, you realize they never thought about you to begin with (ha!). I can say with complete conviction, I will not be called to a leadership position anytime soon in my dear ward. So far, no tears have wet my pillow…
Cadence: Quote:Old-Timer wrote:
“I do think it fits those who neglect the living in pursuit of the dead.”
“I agree.”
I once knew a stake high councilman who claimed to have been raised on peanut butter sandwiches, as his “mother, the genealogist,” was much too busy saving dead ancestors to do much concerning meals or keeping the house ship-shape. He talked about her several years on Mother’s Day. I wasn’t sure if it was meant to be faith promoting or a cry for professional counseling. “Maybe a little bit of both” (Forest Gump)
