[godlives]

Some one sent this to me:

Quote:

“I know a 17-year-old who, just prior to the prophet’s talk, had pierced her ears a second time. She came home from the fireside, took off the second set of earrings, and simply said to her parents, “If President Hinckley says we should only wear one set of earrings, that’s good enough for me.””

“Wearing two pair of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will. And if she will obey him now, on something relatively simple, how much easier it will be to follow him when greater issues are at stake.”

– Apostle M. Russell Ballard, “His Word Ye Shall Receive,” Ensign, May 2001, 65

This is very similar to how I used to think. I’ll do what you say because you tell me it’s right. It’s these kind of teachings that promote co-dependency. I feel I have been socialized this way by the same leaders who are supposed to be my spiritual conduit? How can we come to know God if we are following council like this?

[godlives]

I didn’t like my comment here so I deleted it. Instead I want to post this quote and get others thoughts on it:

Quote:

“Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately.”

– Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

[godlives]

I think you have very valid questions! They are not stupid at all. I get confused a lot as well. I am on a few sites, and so far this one seems to be the most useful for me. The people here have been through a lot of similar yet completely different experiences, making this a great place to learn and share.

Quote:

=”mormonmom” I have not done anything serious or bad to keep me from feeling the spirit but I haven’t taken the sacrament in a long time. Do you have to take the sacrament to feel the spirit or does it just help.

Does it help you? I think that the process of baptism, sacrament etc. are really ways of each of us expressing and accepting our love in Christ. That being said, some rituals mean more to one person then another. I don’t believe you have to take the sacrament to feel the spirit. In fact, I know that people who have major sins on their heads can still feel the spirit, else how does one repent? Also sin is a subjective word. What one person thinks is a sin is not to another.

I also wonder if I don’t feel the spirit should I not go to church? I guess I feel welcome to go to church anytime and know I can go but it feels hard going when I can’t feel the spirit and I can’t help but wonder why..

I have been struggling with this as well. Does the benefit of going out way the disappointments? It sounds like you are still learning at church which is really great. Different people go to church for different reasons. Some supplement there spirituality with other sources but enjoy the friendships at church. I think the spirit comes from God and is available to all. I felt very numb of the spirit for a long time. I wanted to feel it, but it felt gone. Though I sometimes still feel this way, I am starting to feel better about myself and the spirit seems to come a little more frequently.

Sorry for all the questions.. Thanks!

[godlives]

Brian,

I have been reading a lot of your posts and I am learning a lot from you. Garments are very much a personal decision. I keep thinking about this when it comes to doctrine. I doubt that God would have any issue with you making your own garments church approved or not. One think I find very exciting about the journey I’m on is the idea that I have a personal relationship with God. In other words, why not try it and see how you feel. If it works for you wonderful. If not, well you have your answer.

[godlives]

swimordie you keep speaking music to my ears ❗

[godlives]

I have thought a lot about co-dependency even to the point of my reliance on Jesus Christ. I have lots of co-dependency issues. In some ways the co-dependent structure is nice. I can stand on other people’s foundations such as prophets, religion, family etc. I can blame my choices on them because I didn’t do what I believed but what they believed. I can justify about anything and it makes me feel good. I love feeling good. I can sit under their roof when it rains etc. But God did me a favor this past year. My eyes opened to a new world of possibility and a new world of struggle. The problem with co-dependency is as natural as it seems once a person hits a certain point they realize how damaging it is to one’s on progression in life. The problem with cutting co-dependency is it feels like you’ve cut off the parachute and you are free falling to the ground. And everyone knows how that dream ends. You wake up! At least that is what happened to me. One of my big questions is can I live a life free from co-dependency even in Jesus Christ? Am I co-dependent on him in a good way?

For me this is the year of questions. I’ve spent my whole life seeking and believing in others answers. This year I am trying to find the questions that are in me. What do I believe about Christ, Heavenly Father etc.? What can I do to better my life? What is spirituality to me? What is God to me? I find asking myself questions reminds me to not be so darn co-dependent!

p.s. I’ve also wondered if we are co-dependent to a degree on staylds.com? 😆 😳

[godlives]

Tom Haws wrote:

If your son is anything like me, he will profit best from being able to chat with you at length and hear your thoughts on it. Maybe even some additional (possibly discomforting) facts about Jesus and Joseph Smith, closing with your strong belief in keeping a clear mind and living responsibly before God and man.

Funny you should mention this. I picked him up from school today and took him to McDonald’s to chat. I told him I still believed in God. He asked me if I still believed in the Book of Mormon. I told him I believed it was a good book and so was the Bible. I explained to him that actions in life and core principles were more important to me then a book of scripture. But explained that we can still learn from these stories. He asked me if I would refrain from drinking in front of him, at least wait until he went to bed or wasn’t in the room. I asked him why this was important to him and he said because he would never drink something that would hurt his body or taste yucky so it’s hard for him to watch me do it. I used this to discuss principles and truth as I know it. I also told him that though I may not live up to his or others expectations that I was trying to live up to what I thought was right. He told me he loved me and was glad I believed in God. Who is the adult here with faith? We have lots to discuss but at least we are talking.

Quote:

DEATH AND BACK

It sounds like your wife’s religion is a lot like mine and Monkey’s. But I don’t emphasize Christ in the position of Grace. To me it’s a native attribute of the Highest. I hope you thank heaven everyday for the privilege of having that experience in your family.

Yes.

[godlives]

Ray,

I appreciate your comment but I have no way of helping her in the core or “pure” doctrine area. The more I look at church doctrine the more it appears made up out of convenience based on a situation and society at the time. I think they do good things but doctrine? What is LDS doctrine? Blacks and the Priesthood, BoA, polygamy, BY and his claims, the succession after JS died, SLC new downtown, feminism, temple ceremonies etc. For her JS simply was never a prophet. Christ is salvation. All LDS history and the current church’s position regarding prop 8 does is secure her belief that the church is no better then any other church, and sometimes a lot worse. For me to try to convince her or help her believe in doctrine is a mistake. I don’t believe in most of the church as “true” like I used to. I see it as a tool out of a toolbox of options on how to learn about God. I do however have something in my heart that is fighting against all of my logical disbeliefs to stay in the church and that is why I continue to post on this site. I have no other place to express my feelings. My family doesn’t even know that I don’t attend church anymore. They think I’m TBM. JS is still an active part of my belief system as is Christ but the church is still not very open to discussing anything that could prove it other then the “only true church.” She has been through a lot in her life and I’m in no place to help her other then praying and hoping God will guide both of us and our family to the truth’s in life that allow us to be truly happy. For her it’s a trade off, one parent still agrees with her, she’s just changed sides I think… For me it’s just hope… hope that some day this journey will make sense and my family, especially children, will be better for it.

[godlives]

In the past I have always looked for answers instead of questions. I think that questions are much more important then having all the answers. That is at least my theory on the idea. Keep them coming I love what has been said so far, and frankly some of them are giving me a good laugh.

By the way, the reason your seminary teacher doesn’t know about dinosaurs is because he doesn’t pray to the dino God. And he’s not concerned about going to dino heaven. Just a thought… 😈

[godlives]

Yes family is first. My mother-in-law (remarried) talked about this on the phone with her for a couple of hours. She made a choice of staying LDS above her marriage, though there were several issues. But her opinion is very much TBM, basically the temple and the church comes first. If one of us doesn’t keep the covenants then we have a right to divorce. It’s more important for the kids to be raised LDS then not.

We spent New Years at my father-in-law’s home. He has quite a selection of alcohol in the house. I tasted a few different types while I was there. I was offered a dark beer at dinner. I tried a little but just like the light beers, still didn’t care for it. That night I put my son to bed and he seemed a little sad. I asked him what was wrong and he said to me, “you drank beer.” I asked him what the concern is? He first verified that I wouldn’t be driving, though I only had five sips. I assured him I wouldn’t and he seemed a little happier. He then explained that at church we are told that drinking beer is wrong. He expressed to me that he wanted to stay mormon and if I did that I would be in trouble. I had no idea this would affect him at that level. To add to this, earlier last year he came home from church and told my wife that he might not be able to go to heaven because he’s not good enough. My wife couldn’t believe that my son would worry about such things at 10 years old. My son takes things to the letter and that worries both me and my wife. If you tell him it is wrong he will think that way. He is very black and white in the way he thinks. My wife and I are at a conflicting moment where we both see things differently and are not sure what the best solution is for the family. For now we stay home, but are trying to work through all of this.

[godlives]

My wife doesn’t remember anything during her death. She just came back changed. It’s so difficult to explain. My wife was a temple going, church attending, strong LDS believer. She literally changed from the time she died to the time she woke up. I can’t explain it as it’s been difficult for me to understand, as my change takes a lot more time. But the fact that this happened has lead me to research it as she is my spouse.

She doesn’t know why other then she believes there was no restoration needed after Christ and Grace is sufficient. She’s not angry but sees that the LDS church is full of people who don’t think for themselves. She refers to grace as a difficult concept for many mormons to get. The idea is that you have a direct conversation with God. That because of this God will tell you what is true and that there is no need for a prophet but instead “prophetic people.” She disagrees on many of the church’s conservative stances including Prop 8 and the need of a temple. Why have priesthood, temple endowments etc. when you have Christ? Why excommunicate for minor things like disagreeing with the prophet? Why not open dialogue and welcomed differences even if it makes things harder. We all know that if you disagree with teachings from the prophet at church you may be punished? If you question priesthood authority and doctrine in the church you may be asked to leave. I have seen this through out my life. She basically thinks Christ fulfilled everything necessary for salvation thus the LDS church is not needed. She’s not rude or abrupt about it. She’s respectful and kind. She sees the authority concept of the church tends to favor men as there is no women in the quorum of the twelve. Why can’t a woman lead the men? Yes she’s a bit of a feminist. Unfortunately I change diapers more often because of this

[godlives]

Congrats on your personal journey.

[godlives]

Thank you for the comment. I agree with that comment but I have always said that I reserve the right to change my mind. However relationship with God does not necessarily equal = attending the LDS church. However our goal on this site is to stay LDS or at least learn to deal with the LDS life’s that we leave. It’s not like leaving the church means we can run away from the church or culture. I have a large family of members and must learn to live within these relationships and cultural habits. With my more liberal ideas (as an independent), film making/career, my wife’s struggles in the church, lack of ability to have meaningful relationships with the majority of members, sibling judgmental and hypocritical belief systems in the church, leaders not accepting error and covering it up as “God’s commandments” (like blacks not having the priesthood), LDS lack of tolerance for those living different lives from them, “works” over “grace”, church history, and the list goes on. It makes it very difficult for me to continue in the religion, thus I’m inactive. Yet I feel guilty for not living up to hopeless standards, so I live in a grey area of no desire to attend church but unsure if I will ever be able to live without the truths I’ve gained within some of the teachings of the church. I have seriously thought about attending the Community of Christ because they share some common beliefs but focus more on helping others then “rules” driven governance. The problem is they also claim to have a prophet which seems odd since they don’t claim to be the one and only true church.

I guess unlike some of you I don’t see the LDS members as my tribe. I see them as my upbringing. I see my tribe as a collection of ideas that I gained from my own life, and the majority of my close friends are not LDS. I really have found the LDS people as a whole to be much less tolerant and much more judgmental. And yes I have had a lot of very bad experiences with members and a few church leaders. But I never left the church because of this. In fact I put my trust in God. But when I learned more history, looked at my experiences, and listened to my heart, I prayed to God if I should stop attending. I felt a very powerful warmth and peace in my heart, the heaviness started to drop off my shoulders, and tears streamed as I realized the Grace of God. I knew that God loved me and felt leaving for the time being was right for me. However I struggle with other religions doctrines as well. I don’t care for the idea of the trinity for instance. I love the idea of the priesthood. Don’t care much for the temple ordinances but love the Celestial room. I have a mix of things I like and don’t. Unfortunately the negatives have reached to a level much more so then the positives. Once this happened and I had this experience I had only one option, inactivity.

Unfortunately without reviling more about myself there are a few stories that business owners of LDS corporations have done that are so opposite from the gospel teachings, and on a normal basis, that it has hurt my families finances and life. Yet it also forced me to ask the church for help, creating a codependent relationship of love and abuse that I must now face and overcome. I decided to take a step back and give myself time away from the church so that I could breathe; giving me a chance to find out what truth means to me. Unfortunately I don’t want nor need the pressures from my family judging me if they knew where I am at, as they think I’m a regular attender of the church. Plus I still feel uncomfortable changing too much from the belief system I have. I guess I still have a long ways to go. Change like this for me is very difficult and all I can do is follow my inner conscience. So I walk a road much less traveled… a road I’ve never traveled, and it feels a little scary.

[godlives]

I guess my problem is that if the church were to run the government we would have less freedom then we do now. We have rules in the church like “not wearing multiple earings?” That is just plain silly. I have a family member who is so extreme in his desire to follow our church’s “rules/commandments” that he leaves little room for forgiveness. This has literally lead him to having mental problems. For him religion needs to go until he can approach it rationally, IMHO. On my mission I was called up by the mission office asking me pack my bags because they received a spiritual conformation that I was sinning. When I asked them what the sin was they didn’t know. I didn’t either. So I packed my bags and went to the mission home. A day later they sent me back with no explanation other then I wasn’t conservative enough in my focus. I hadn’t broke a single rule. I was discouraged but still did my best. But the mission president and his office felt I was evil? Now that was abuse I”ll tell you. What about sending a missionary home for having sex, excommunicating them, and being cut off culturally etc. from the family and ward? I know someone on my mission that screwed up. Well the mission president felt it was necessary to call a mission meeting with all missionaries and tell them that this missionary had done this. His reasoning was to stop rumors from flying. This made me soooo MAD. This poor missionary is returning home and now the entire mission knows why. Again abuse. I could go on and on about this. See if we would change the rules to “compassion and grace” instead of this kind of crap maybe we would truly become the church a that Christ intended. So are we the church of Christ that has been led astray? When will we confront the truth?

[godlives]

I’m sorry things have been difficult for you and your husband. Because I’m currently going through some similar challenges believing in the church I can relate. My wife started to express issues a few years ago about the church. This year she increasingly felt that the church wasn’t true and used a lot of excuses to not attend. Ironically once I had issues she started encouraging me to go back to church with her. I guess she was used to me being the one to hold her up. We both have always been challenged in the church but this year things changed when I was called as Gospel Doctrine teacher and Sunday school president. By mistake I came across some history that really bothered me. Once this happened my testimony fell and I am going through a transformation. I’m also studying codependence and have found it to be very helpful. Though I haven’t taken off my garments or drank alcohol, I did try green tea which I really liked.

Is it possible that HB lives this other life as a way to try it out and make sure he likes the change before creating a lot of issues in the ward? I couldn’t imagine how difficult his feelings must be in such a calling. Also has this caused you to question your belief in the church as well? I think that honesty and open dialogue for both of you is very very important. My wife and I have openly discussed our issues and it has been very helpful. I’m sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I should add that outside my home my parents and siblings don’t know my issues either. God bless you both!

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