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Thanks everybody for the great advice and ideas! I can’t believe it but last night I had another unannounced visit by the RS president and counselor! Have these guys heard of a phone? They came at 7:30 at night and I have little kids who I needed to get to bed. The saving grace of the visit was they did only stay within 15 minutes and said they call their visits standing visits and they don’t sit down. I don’t know if I have the guts to open my front door and turn away somebody just trying to be nice to us. I think next time this happens I will simply ignore the doorbell. If it’s a friend, they would know my number and feel fine to call me and say hey I’m outside I need X,Y,Z.
Another interesting development is I met a nice lady at church with kids and we got together today. I let her know while we were hanging out that we aren’t super active, but we aren’t inactive either. I just wanted her to know I wouldn’t be at church each week, because I’m getting tired of people assuming these things about me here. I’d rather get the initial embarrassment out of the way and if they don’t see me around the ward building thats fine!
Hi Reki, Welcome to staylds. I’m sorry to hear about your struggles.
When the church gives health guidelines they are speaking in broad terms to what works for most people. Your husband’s situation is not falling under the “most people” category in my mind.
I am pro marriage all the way, especially if kids are involved. I live with a Jack Mormon and know what it feels like to have anxiety about the way they live, or the way you live sometimes to be on the same page and keep peace. It’s a very tough mental game I play too. But I decided divorcing my husband who is a great Dad and loves me so I could be a better Molly Mormon was simply more immoral than anything I’ve done this year with him that falls under the “non member” behavior category. With all that said, if you don’t have kids now is the time to evaluate and work through this so you know you can be happy married to him and vice versa. Good luck, I hope things get better for you.
Hi Cwald . 
Funny most of my LDS male friends struggle with porn. I bet most wives would rather deal with Barley drinks!
And sorry if that last post had a few typos. I tried to edit it but its not showing up as corrected.
CT, Thanks for expanding. I hope I didn’t make you feel uncomfortable. I am just not sure I can ask those questions to my brothers-in-law and I have been wondering. I know one of them was sexually abused and I am sure that contributed as well. The other one is older and I’m not sure about his life as much. You have every right to say something and then interpret things differently down the road. I love stayLDS because everybody is very understanding that this is a journey and we don’t need to know everything or have a set plan. I read a really good quote I thought I’d share.
Quote:“Understanding the difference between healthy striving and perfectionism is critical to laying down the shield and picking up your life. Research shows that perfectionism hampers success. In fact, it’s often the path to depression, anxiety, addiction, and life paralysis.”
― Brené Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You’re Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
What I truly worry about with my kids is them picking up from the culture that we have to do everything just right. So many of my non LDS friends watch porn, drink, and whatever else they want. Then they move on, without guilt. I’m not trying to turn this into a discussion on what is right or what is wrong, but rather want to point out that they don’t seem to beat themselves up like my LDS male friends who have porn struggles do. I don’t believe I know any LDS men with drinking issues.
I don’t see how I can teach my kids the difference between healthy striving and perfectionism in a church that teaches if you do ONE THING wrong you need to go talk to the Bishop and face some outward consequences that the group will see. I’m not sure this is what Christ had in mind. I do understand making sure to protect the group we must have disclosure, but there are many levels of sin and some pose the risk of hurting others near as much as others.
So heres my Sunday update. Mostly everything was positive and easy. But a very nice Primary President straight up asked me what callings I was interested in. What is going on here? I can’t remember any wards where I got put on the spot the first time people met me. Usually they waited at least a month to even ask me about callings.I’m really outgoing so I can see how people would meet me and feel comfortable so maybe it’s my fault for not laying low better the first day. I was just trying to be confident and be myself and also get to know some of the neighbors. I had to think on the spot and come up with an answer to explain myself. I told her I just wanted to be honest that at this time I wasn’t going to accept any callings and I was sorry if that was awkward to say or too blunt. I then took the advice of trying to make sure to highlight our similarities and told her my husband and I were not anti and thought the church was great we just were planning to do other things on Sunday at times and I didn’t want to take a calling when I wasn’t sure I would be coming each week. Then I turned the conversation to some other similarities like the local school and our neighborhood. At the end I mentioned if I show up with my kids I will look for ways I can assist her or her teachers, especially the nursery teacher who will have my daughter. I’m big on not taking advantage of people if I am taking part of something. I think anybody in church would be more willing to accept me for where I’m at as a person if when I’m there I try to make their day a bit easier.
I hadn’t thought about offering my help because I wasn’t sure how I could, it didn’t come to mind until I said it. But it made sense as a great way to help without being “official” and also making my new neighbors feel like I cared about them. I’m feeling really good about this decision.
Though I’m not as old as you CT, I am a perfectionist and know what you speak of concerning your church experience. I’m not sure why the church has decided to equate more work with more happiness. It seems a little self serving to the organization. Perhaps that helps slackers get moving, but for hard working people pleasers it can be damaging. I’d love to see labels on church statements, like “results will vary”, or “use your common sense” or “not for everybody”. One thing I’ve noticed in the LDS community is how much addiction is talked about. I wonder if all the religious guilt and shame plays into developing an addiction? I don’t know if you mind expanding, without going into detail of course, on if my observation is accurate? I”m just starting to feel like religion can do almost as much damage as it can do good depending on the individual. I myself have 2 brother in laws with sexual addictions that have nearly ruined their lives. I worry that the LDS Church’s perfectionism teachings are hurting more than they are helping people and I might take my kids out because of some of the problems I’ve seen.
With everything you’ve been through I’m glad to hear you got some help through the process and also found the true pure religion of Jesus Christ, which has nothing to do with work, rules or doctrine and everything to do with love and acceptance. Good luck with your journey. Stay LDS is a great community and I don’t comment too much but I sure enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts.
Quote:my first thought is to first demonstrate similarities before revealing all your differences. After people decide they like you they can handle the things they will disagree with if they get it in small doses, with time to assimilate each one before the other comes in. I would also try to remind them of the similarities between doses so they can remember why they are comfortable with you.
This is great advice. It’s just so hard to remember when I’m dwelling on all the things that are different about me now and being negative. Reading this post helped me realize that I need to accept myself right now if this is going to work out for me to attend the LDS church in any way, shape or form. I won’t be able to play up my similarities if I’m unsure of myself.
Like many LDS women I suffer from a bad case of perfectionism. I wasn’t completely perfect this year, long story short, and don’t feel like I’m good enough to be there. And I hate that kind of thinking, because I know I have a lot of good qualities and outside the church people would consider me a great person. Add on top of that years of a shelf getting heavy and it seems like the time to leave could be soon.
Today is Sunday. What should I do if they ask me and the husband to speak in church and to introduce ourselves? Is there any rules about who can speak in Sacrament? I’m also curious about praying or making comments in classes as a “heathen”. I want to respect the organizational directives.
Another thing I want to do is start attending some other churches as a visitor. Any experiences, advice, or suggestions on doing so? Even if I turned into a full believing practicing member again, I want myself and my kids to understand other religions better.
Thanks to everybody for taking the time to offer your insight. I’ll update you guys after church today if anything interesting happens.
Every once in awhile something on here saves me from feeling like all hope is lost for me with religion. Thanks Ray for this message… Quote:I’m not trying to hold up Joseph as a model of virtuous behavior (since I don’t see him as such), but I am saying the standard we (collectively) tend to demand of our prophets and apostles (particularly in the case of Joseph, who can be seen, I believe, more in the role of an Old Testament prophet than any other type) simply is not consistent with history and our own scriptural canon. The majority of exceedingly extraordinary people throughout history have carried baggage on the other side of their “greatness”, as well. I don’t see that disconnect as their fault (even as I see their actions as their fault); I see that disconnect as our fault, and I include leadership in that statement just as much as general membership – more so, in an important way, since the leadership has condoned and even encouraged that unrealistic view.
It reminded me how human we all are, even prophets. I guess what I really struggle with concerning the church whitewashing things in the past is I value honesty so very much. I would rather have people look down on me than see me in a way i don’t deserve. I feel so lied to lately so to hear they are getting more of this information out is giving me some hope.
Its about time we learned in church culture that people aren’t good or bad, they are often a little of both depending on the day. Lets put aside the image of perfection.
Quote:My husband said he was first exposed to porn and struggled with it after he found magazines under his dads bed when he was really young. I think this situation just stirred up a whole lot of heartache with me because I feel it was completely irresponsible of his parents and now I feel like I’m seeing the same situation all over again.
It makes sense this is hitting you on a personal note, totally understandable. Also you have every right not to let your kids (if you have them) go over there. If they ask you why, then sure tell them why. However, I disagree with the commenter that said you should tell them how you feel and why at this point. As far as what we are reading, your kids were not exposed to porn at their house, you were.
If they don’t seem to care if their kids see porn sitting out thats their call. And also your call to react to this revelation about them.
Another idea comes to mind… Perhaps you’re friends aren’t anti pornography, but they are concerned about other things? Maybe they support gay rights, feminism, animal rights, or care about preserving the environment or ending poverty. Maybe they care about obesity or other health epidemics. These are just some causes that come to mind. The point is we all have certain causes that matter more than others to us. We don’t have the emotional space so to speak to be passionate about everything. Maybe just maybe, they are concerned by something you or the LDS church does and they are overlooking it to be friends?
You being LDS means you were taught throughout your life that virtue and chastity were extremely important and that sexual sins are a big deal. These friends may have not been conditioned to feel the way you do thus they don’t feel inclined to research behind the scenes about pornography. They also don’t seem to feel ashamed if they are leaving it out in the open knowing you were staying over.
As far as talking to your friends, don’t. If they ever brought it up that would be a chance for you to express your views. However, from what you can gather they don’t feel the way you do and the conversation might not be positive.
Ten years out of Utah with porn using non member friends and plenty of porn using Mormon friends in the closet
🙂 Quote:In the case of the OP, I believe you’d be within your righteous judgment, not to let your kids play over there unsupervised knowing that the guy has loaded porn sitting on his nightstand and not kept under lock and key. A lot of guys in my generation were first exposed to porn because one of their friend’s parents had it and didn’t keep it locked away.
Absolutely agree with this. However she didn’t mention kids in her post. She mentioned she is trying not to judge this couple. If kids are involved in the friendship that is totally understandable that she may have concerns and proceed to act on them.
Hi there. I’d like to chime in here with limited time so i hope this comes out right. First of all, i think it is fantastic that you want to work on not judging others, a great goal for everybody. I found this quote interesting… Quote:I just honestly can’t look at this dad the same way again and almost am to the point that I just consider him a creep. Maybe a random place to ask for support but obviously I contribute this to my Mormon upbringing. I just keep telling myself inside that my husband had a problem with this before I met him and still has struggles but I consider him a good person….
So you say your husband has looked at porn in the past and still has struggles yet you worry you may consider this friend a creep because of the out in the open magazines. I think this illustrates something about the LDS culture, that we tend to keep quiet about our moral weaknesses and find that the acceptable way. Nonmembers from my experience don’t, at least when porn is the subject. I think trying to internalize this difference may be helpful.
Good point. I’ve given up on some of the rules, however i also like many of them. Either way, I’m taking control of what i think and do and trying to figure myself out and that makes all the difference i think.
Wow everyone thanks. There were several things said that describe my husband exactly. I have been running the spirituality at our house for years. Now that he sees that changing he is second guessing kickstarting my inactivity. He is also very loyal naturally so that explains why he wouldn’t want anybody questioning his religion. I can see how he assumed if I followed his path that I would be just like him and keep a traditional testimony. That is something I had not considered. He had no idea what this would do to my beliefs and now he is most likely having some regrets.
It’s like a pandora’s box has been opened in my head. He used to know where I was headed and his kids and was content to have me do all the work at church. Now there is an uncertain element to what I might do. I do feel like this is what his choices in the past have put me through.
All I can say is karma’s a b*#%@.
Quote:perhaps you are focused on points of doctrine rather than spiritual progression
I actually have never talked to him about spiritual progression. Rather we both seem to be focusing on doctrine or cultural things we like/dislike and finding we don’t agree on those points. I’m more the deep thinker so I’m not sure how a conversation would go with him on a broader scope, but Im up for trying. I have to find some common ground quick.
Quote:Mormonism works on everyone in different ways.
Ditto that. It’s hard to accept, especially in our homes.
Quote:separating the gospel from the church
Valid point. He doesn’t mind other people falling into line, just doesn’t want to do it himself. Might be a good conversation as well.
Thanks!
