[gtb7697]

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As I said before, Paul was not especially consistent within his own writings. In my readings of his letters I have tried to not interpret them from my modern LDS perspective. I have tried to take on the role of an anthropologist reading the writing of a long lost religious sect. This has allowed me to be fascinated but also somewhat confused. There are hints as to the shape of the theology, but there are also gaps. You appear to be filling in the gaps with a different non-LDS lens; perhaps Calvinistic or Augustinian (I don’t know them too well). While part of me envies your sense of certainty, it is the same part of me that envies persons that are confident that the LDS perspective has all the answers. There is nothing wrong with your beliefs of the faith you have in them…it just isn’t what we tend to tackle here at StayLDS. May your path serve you well.

I seem to be getting quite a bit of gaff about my evolving views. It seems that many here what to label me. I guess if my own conclusions mirror conclusions other faiths have reached that shouldn’t condemn me in this forum. I am a member of the LDS faith and my understanding of specifics may differ with official doctrine but I dont see how this directly makes me anymore hostile than anyone else on this forum. Historically the church has evolved its doctrine. Maybe I am just ahead of the curve. Either way I wouldn’t say as you have said that I am certain.

[gtb7697]

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Let’s see now, girls 14 and under being “married” to older men, families being reassigned to more faithful brethren, young men being kicked out of communities and left on the street, having your home taken away, being forbidden to have sex with your wife, being told you can’t listen to the radio, watch TV, read the news paper. If it was just Bill Hendrickson and his three wives in Sandy minding their own business that’s fine with me but it never is. Maybe “God doesn’t care…” but I’m glad someone here on this side of the veil does.

+1. Couldn’t agree more.

All of the above occur outside of polygamy communities as well, Perhaps all marriage should be discarded. If we condemned a religous group based on abuses committed I doubt there would be much religion left.

[gtb7697]

wayfarer wrote:

gtb7697 wrote:

Call me overly simplistic but My doubts began and remain unsettled after coming across Paul,s warning not to believe an angel of light who presents another gospel. After reading that I picked up my BOM with the words ANOTHER TESTAMENT and since then have wondered if the young boy Joseph had been a pawn in the greatest delusion attempt in salvation history.

this is the second post i have read from you in as many minutes that uses language directly from Christian, evangelical literature, generally associated with ministries witnessing to Mormons. i have seen the above statement numerous times written on a post-it note in Marriott hotel copies of the Book of Mormon.

Wayfarer. While I don’t see this scripture in the same light as you I prefer not to debate doctrine of what exactly is the revelation of Jesus Christ. I had to chuckle out loud at the thought of my observation seemong to be a witnessing to Mormons type of deal. as I said in my first post I believe God calls to salvation who when where how he chooses. Another words I firmly believe that conversion is a complete act of the Holy Spirit, thus witnessing is a waste of time so I would be the last person attempting to convince anyone of anything, that is not my purpose in life. I hold to Romans 8-9 and thank god for the gift of life each day, I know that I dont deserve it and can only hope that I was not only born to end destroyed. I an not one of those insane folks who feel God wants to save all. I believe as Paul relates to us that essentially it is not for us to say that God is unjust in creating some for destrruction and others for grace and eternal life. I guess I essentially disbelieve free agency.

[gtb7697]

This one issue I have very strong fellings about. I dont think it should be anyones business how consenting adults form relations period. I feel that polygamy has just as much validty and success as well as no more ability to be abused as any other type of relationship construct. It sickens me that in a free country these people cant be left in peace to marry and raise families however they see fit. I dont think God cares what you do with your privates, you cant take it with you anyway its just flesh. All flesh God finds worthy of destruction since it is tainted with sin.

[gtb7697]

I much rather prefer the Adam and Lillith story

[gtb7697]

Old-Timer wrote:

As to the question of the post’s title, I think the Old Testament is based on the dominant religious perceptions of its time – which are not inconsistent at the most fundamental level with the Greek gods. The New Testament itself, didn’t do all that much to change it. Otoh, Christianity, as established in the first century AD and then by the Council of Nicea a couple hundred years later, was a radical departure from its Hebrew then Jewish origin. Mormonism, imo, is a fascinating combination of the two – and other religious traditions outside of that historical tradition.

I follow in step with your thoughts. The old testament reveals quite a bit of this . Just take the name El as in Elohim, Elshada, El is the father of Baal te predominate god of the OT. This is why we see Asherah the goddess beside the ark in the early temples repeatedly. It may sense that The queen of heaven as Jeremiah refers to her should with the King of heaven. It was the Yahwehist sect that began to evolve the hebrew nation into a monotheistic nation as they came to power essentially in the struggles of the northern kingdom and Judah.

[gtb7697]

Call me overly simplistic but My doubts began and remain unsettled after coming across Paul,s warning not to believe an angel of light who presents another gospel. After reading that I picked up my BOM with the words ANOTHER TESTAMENT and since then have wondered if the young boy Joseph had been a pawn in the greatest delusion attempt in salvation history.

[gtb7697]

Ray,

I have read over the treatise and can tell I will be spending much time with it . I fell as though it is tellimg my spiritual story. That should be embarrasing to admit but true nonetheless. Ican see how perhaps my life was building to that moment when I was snatched as I sometimes refer to my dark night.

[gtb7697]

Thank you everyone on your coments. Although I do feel that opening the Bible that one moment was not the catalyst but rather the mindset I had in my approach to truth in that moment. I had indeed read the Bible as all members do along side Gospel doctrine I believe that the marked difference was that I was not approaching my reading with any preordained study in mind or as I had in the past I was not seeking to find my lds faith in the scriptures. To answer one of your questions I am here to find out why I had this experience perhaps through speaking with others who may have found themselves suddenly bare naked before God.

At first I found myself content in this state of limbo and began to seek out lds and nonlds alike. I more often then not have been met with questions of what do I believe or what church I should go to .Everyone seems to want to put me in their box and tell me that God wants me to join with them . In the caseof lds friends I have lost a few and others have not found it neccessary one way or the other to make a decisionon our friendship. I also wanted to clarify that I removed books and photos from my home out of a neccesity. I dont know how to put it any other way but bluntly. Those very things which formerly brought me comfort now gave me the creeps. I dont think that these actions speak to whether or not I should leave the church . I suppose figuring that out is a reason I am here. I hold on to sentmental feelings yet at the same time I am moving into certainties on other issues,doctrines and such. I dont have amnesia and recall very vividly my love for Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon and so many other pearls of the church. This is why Iam here. I have had the love of my soul taken from me and waiting on the Lord to tell me why has become heartbraking.

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