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I read this book a couple years ago at the request of my dh. He was really upset by the book and ended up asking me if I would ever kill him because of religion. He was really paranoid about what the book had said and was worried that the church was stalking him or that me or my family might go into a religious frenzy and kill him. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought the book was over reaching. I didn’t really have any counter arguments to my dh though. I didn’t know what to say to any of the topics in the book. I don’t have a whole lot of time to research the history either because I have two young kids and I am going to school full time while working part time. If anyone has any advice on where to look to point out some of the fallacies in the book it would be great. I have to agree with Tom. I always loved the idea of visiting other churches and learning of other cultures. I find that what I agree with I accept into my own life and what I don’t agree with I just don’t practice. I think that exploring other religions and organizations may help. I’ve visited quite a few but haven’t found anything that fit me more than the LDS church. I have friends and family members who have found other religions that they enjoy better. It may be that I just grew up in an awesome ward because I actually had my parents and a lot of adults in my ward encourage me to think differently about church views. I was always encouraged to get a college degree and continue my education. I even had one of the bishopric tell me that he expected me to achieve a lot educationally and motherly. I had many non-LDS friends even though I grew up in a mainly LDS community. I was bothered by the idea that “We are the only true church” and that my friends wouldn’t achieve the greatest glory just because they weren’t LDS. My family told me that God knew who was good and he wouldn’t condemn anyone to anything just because of their religion. Their examples helped me to be more open to the world and accept others regardless of their beliefs. Lonelytraveler, I’m sorry to hear about your struggle. I had a brother-in-law with bipolar and it was very difficult for him. Sometimes others around you cannot understand what is going on. I hope you can find something that will work for you. Prayer can be a tough topic. I always expected to have clear answers as to whom I should marry and where I should go to college. I rarely received any clear answers. I think for me it was because God didn’t feel the need to control that much of my life. I haven’t prayed a whole lot in the last few years. I just kind of stopped doing it without realizing it. There have been a few times in my life where I have finally hit a point where I cannot deal with life anymore and just finally pray and tell God that I’m trying my best and I need something to keep going. Usually these prayers help me release a lot of my frustration and that helps me feel better because I feel that I am being honest with God. There are times when I really need help. I’ve only had that type of prayer three times in my life but shortly after each one something has happened to help my life. The first was when I was in a really bad situation which could have ended my life and I didn’t know how to get out of it. No one in my family or friends knew about what was happening. The next day my sister gave me a call and told me that her home was open if I needed to move. She had been awake all night thinking that I needed to be with her. I did move with her and it was one of the best things I could have ever done. I guess I don’t really know how I feel about prayers but experiences like that one give me hope that there really is someone out there looking out for me. I hope this helps. I appreciate all of your advice. I will try to get Rough Rolling Stone. I think my dad may be reading it right now. I love this discussion group. I love that everyone is so supportive and open. I have not found that other places I’ve looked. I have about a million things running through my head and so I’m going to try to express them and hope they make sense. I myself am not struggling too bad with the church. I think that it is a good organization and it is the place I am suppose to be. I just recently learned about things that the church usually denies. I was hurt and confused at first but then I realized that those were mistakes made by people. Overall I think that the church has been a positive influence in the world. In the past I have been a TBM and just believed that the bad thing said about the church were lies and never did my own research. I’m trying to get away from that way of thinking. I am just now taking the initiative to develop my own beliefs.
I like Ray’s idea that “there are no academic issues: everything is emotional to somebody.” I have felt this way for a long time but I live with someone who is convinced that everything is academic and can be reasoned out without emotion. It is hard to have a real discussion because if I bring emotions into the discussion at all then everything I say is discounted. I am told that the LDS leaders are all tyrants and pernicious people on a daily basis. Anyone who disagrees with this person is considered ignorant and does not have critical thinking skills.
Gabe P wrote:One problem I had is that Mormonism and anti-Mormonism are equal and opposite cottage industries:
I absolutely agree with this. I cannot stay TBM but at the same time I don’t understand swinging to anti-Mormonism because I feel like I would have the same problems just on the opposite side of the issue. I’ve seen anti-Mormons lie and deceive as much as Mormons do sometimes.I’m just venting but it is nice to have a place to vent. I thought it was funny thought that as I was driving through town today I saw a quote on one church’s billboard that said “Bitterness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.” I thought it was quite appropriate to how I felt.
HiJolly wrote:happymom wrote:I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived.
Sometimes our weakness, or inability to control our bodies, causes us to give up hope. I’ve been through it myself. In my case I didn’t get addicted to porn (thank God – that would’ve REALLY beat me down), but I did use it often to facilitate my need for mindless, immediate gratification. For many years, I just gave up trying to stop because after trying and failing hundreds, maybe thousands of times (over 30 years), I couldn’t honestly keep the hope up.I guess I went through stages of trying and failing, then giving up, then trying and failing, ad infinitum. Or so it seemed. Over the years I learned new ways to work on it. Instead of praying to be able to stop, I began praying to be able to WANT to stop. In the end, God blessed me with testicular cancer, and I no longer have the problem at all. I sometimes am tempted to be depressed, thinking that God helped me ‘cheat’ instead of beating it all by myself, but then I come to my senses and thank God that She/He stepped in and dealt with it for me. Repentance is a lot like that, come to think of it.
HiJolly
Hi Jolly,
Thanks for your story. That had to be very hard to go through. Any advice on how to be supportive to my dh. I don’t think I’m doing a very good job.
I don’t have HBO and didn’t even hear about this show until maybe a few months ago. The news where I live had a short segment on it in which they put a statement from the church. It seems that the church isn’t too worried about it. They told members to conduct themselves with dignity and that they didn’t think it would have a big impact on the church. (I’m paraphrasing here and hope I get it right. I was trying to get two kids to bed and do homework while the news was on). I think there is a full statement on the church website. Thanks for the info on the show. It is interesting to hear about. Like Ray I am too cheap to get HBO but maybe you can keep us posted. hawkgrrrl wrote:Cult is too often the word used to describe “other” religions, particularly “newer” religions. In fact, the term “NRM” or “New Religious Movement” is often used synonymously with “cult.” Any religion looks like a cult when it’s new or from the vantage point of someone outside of that religion, but in reality only the ones that really don’t let you leave or do mind-control are actual cults. Catholicism can look like a cult to outsiders, too–anybody read Dan Brown’s books??
In reality, all religions are “tribal.” There are rules for belonging (even if there aren’t rules for membership, there are unwritten norms that indicate you belong).
I love this
I understand that men need that sexual drive in order to have kids or otherwise the human race would not have survived. I feel just like you bridget night. It is hard to fit into the blindly believing when you know some of the falicies and yet you do not want to take out religion. I’m glad you’re on here. Growing up I remember my mom constantly badgering me about modesty. I grew up in an mostly LDS community and usually was considered to be overly modest. If I wore a shirt that even showed some of my curves I was told that I was immodest. I felt like I was suppose to hide my body. I now where mostly what I want and still try to stay modest but I don’t want to badger my daughter to the point where she feels like her body is evil or something. As for the Utah study, I noticed it only deals with online pornography. In other places, men probably get a lot of their fulfillment from topless bars or places like that. There is not as many places it seems in Utah like that and men are probably more likely to get caught. (This can also include women too.) I wonder if there is a higher percentage of online users because they are less likely to get caught.
I have a big issue with pornography as a woman. I saw a CNN.com article just about a week ago showing a study that indicated that when men saw women in bikinis or in a sexualized way, the part of their brain that lit up was the part that is used when working with tools. They were also more likely to talk in a first person language like “I push” “I use”. When they see women fully dressed they talk in third person language like “She walks” “She uses”. It also seems like many women feel the need to act stupid and sexual to get a guys attention. I see with with friends all of the time. Plus, having a dh who watches porn it is really hard to feel like he wants me and not just using me after viewing women who are way better looking that I will ever be. It’s hard to feel like you are not enough.
I’m all for enjoying ones self sexually, I just think people need to think about what they are doing first.
I love the recipe. We are all a little looney sometimes.
You might be interested in the following post, more for the sense of God knowing us and our needs than for anything else:http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/02/our-father-knows-us-better-than-we.html That was a really nice link. It is nice to hear stories of how the lord uses others to bless us and how sometimes we need the one to help with the blessings.
