Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
All learning is of value. But not everything I’ve learned recently is true.
I may not be deep enough to understand that quote.
jmb275 wrote:I have thought a lot about death recently
…not in a self-inflicted way, right jmb275? I hope you aren’t in any danger, are you.
Please clarify so I don’t have to worry.
Orson, I can’t argue with that. That is what it all boils down to. Having agreement on that, it seems difficult for me then to know how to prioritize where to put my love. Should I miss my daughter’s soccer game to go with the missionaries to show love to a new member? Should I show love to my leaders by obeying their council to go to priesthood meeting rather than help my wife at home who is asking for my love and support.
Elder Oaks gave a great talk on Good, Better, Best. Sometimes I find it hard to know which and when some fit into which category, and there is no hard-fast rule…it is situational, IMO.
I didn’t do this when my oldest were 4, I focused then on FHE and date nights, just cause they need to know I wanted to spend individual time with them and that they were loved. They liked FHE because of games and snacks and time together as a family. I didn’t start interviews until after they were baptized, although I do it with my youngest of 6 yrs old now just cause he sees the others getting time with dad. jmb275, Well worded response. You make your point clear and that has given me much to ponder about, and I’ll probably need to go back and reread the post when I have more time, but thank you as this is exactly what I am searching for. My prior TBM paradigm did not seem to hold up and carry me through my recent crisis, and now I need to work through stage 4 to get to where I know what I believe anymore, and what I should be holding on to as literal, symbolic, and of value to my happiness. I have not viewed this as deception, but my own lack of understanding gospel principles because I never needed to dig for deeper meaning or application before. I put the deception on myself for deceiving myself with stage 3 faith.
I understand more of your position now. I think I get hung up on the word “deception” as a devious, intentional act tied to a specific leader. I need to better understand your “institutional deception” idea, which just may take some time to let it sink in.
The other element critical to our discussion here is really understanding revelation and how it works. More for us to discuss. Thanks for your post.
In looking through materials on another subject, I came across this point from Elder Haight that then struck me about this conversation thread on deception of church leaders… Quote:“The object, of course, is not merely to hold a meeting of the required length but to plan and execute each one in a way that will provide the spiritual uplift and the sound doctrinal teaching which the Church members need in these critical times. Toward this end, speakers should be urged to relate faith-promoting experiences, to bear testimony, to expound doctrinal subjects, and to speak in a spirit of love and brotherhood. At the same time, they should be urged to avoid travelogues, argumentations, criticism, and the discussion of controversial subjects which have no direct bearing on the saving principles of the gospel.”
This quote is about the importance of leaders making sacrament meetings spiritual (like I said, a whole other topic).
However, that one part struck me: “…avoid travelogues, argumentations, criticism, and the discussion of controversial subjects which have no direct bearing on the saving principles of the gospel.” relates to how the church leaders see what is important to address and what should be avoided.
Right or wronge, I think this shows the general mentality of the church…some controversial subjects have no bearing on my salvation, and therefore, not worth the time to address them. I think many of the things that some feel the church should respond to or should be open to discuss in church history falls under this area that the leaders simply would rather spend time teaching other doctrine. This is not deception but a choice on what to focus on and what is controversial and not of value. You can’t teach investigators EVERYTHING before you ask them to have faith and join, you have to teach them the critical principles they need in order to enter the covenant with enough information to know what they’re doing. Later if they learn things, it is not because they were duped…it is that they now have more tests of faith in their journey, just like I have to deal with some of these issues after 32 years of being a devout mormon.
Quote:Music, just like writing, is very healing … If you are a muscic fan.
I am honestly a HUGE iTunes fan and satellite radio subscriber so I can listen w/o commercials. However, singing is not my thing. I often read the hymns and listen to others who are gifted with good voices, and have taken criticism I’m not singing, but honestly, I don’t get much out of hymns at church. I guess that is just me.
It is so hard when I feel I’ve heard it all before … and then the next meeting is a different person in a new calling saying the same thing again. I liked my last SP who would spend more time teaching from the scriptures and expounding doctrine on Christ and God’s Love, nothing to do with “be your brothers keeper and get out there and home teach” – but the doctrine would inspire me, then I would want to go serve others and be anxiously engaged.
More church meetings need to understand that. Teaching doctrine does more to change behavior than talking about behavior does to change behavior (paraprhased from Elder Packer).
Quote:There are many people out there that feel the same way I do.
I feel the same, and am grateful for having this forum to open up and see it isn’t just me with doubts.
I think it is interesting that human nature or temptations from the dark side (or however you want to put it) seems to make us feel our problems are unique, we are different, others have it all figured out, I might as well not try, something is wrong with me.
How interesting to me that a bunch of strangers can come together on this blogspot and share such similar feelings. To me, that is some testimony that we are all children of God and there is a plan that applies to all of us.
Quote:just me wrote:
The amazing thing that I never realized before is that everyone has a different path!
That is exactly it!!! So many different paths can lead to God and lead to happiness, that my way is not your way, nor yours mine. There can be universal truths that apply to all, but those only get so specific and then leave a lot of room for variation for individuals to follow their own paths as long as they lead to the same place.
Good post. Liked the quotes. Thanks.
Quote:Ray wrote:
Krakauer wrote the book in order to prove something he assumed and built his evidence specifically to prove his assumption
Ok, good. I hoped it wasn’t just me revealing to my friend how biased I was and unable to think beyond the mormon view. I really tried to be open minded, but I think you said it best. He had a murder story, and an assumption about the Laffertys and then built his argument and research to fit that, as you said Ray. It was inaccurately written.
Quote:Hawkgrrrl:
Reading Under the Banner of Heaven to understand Mormonism would be like reading The DaVinci Code to understand Catholicism.
I wished I had that line to tell my boss instead of the multiple paragraphs I wrote. That sums it up perfectly!! He was trying to sell books and told a good story with dramatization and stretches of assertions, not be historically accurate.
Thanks for both your responses.
LaLaLove wrote:Just a quick question .. might have to do with kids.
SS lesson was on keeping the Sabbath Holy.
As we were discussing activities “TO do” on Sunday instead of focusing on what “NOT to do” .. A woman mentioned “PH holders should interview their children” on Sundays and that it was very important- and everyone agreed. What does that mean? Only fathers should do a review with their children once a week, on Sunday, b/c they have the PH .. ? What about mothers? I have no idea what this comment was about. If anyone knows , Please tell me!
I have one on one interviews with each of my 4 kids each fast sunday. I offer my wife to join us if she wants, but she usually lets it be just “daddy time” – so I don’t look at it as a Priesthood requirement, but that it lets me as their dad connect with them and reaffirm with them that I do hold the Priesthood and can offer a blessing also if they wish. In other words, it is a parent thing, and the priesthood is a part of me being a parent. Not a Priesthood thing that mothers can not participate it.
That is my take.
Quote:Asha wrote:
I think the big difference is that all the guilt is gone (what a relief!). Actually the guilt started to disappear about 3 years ago when I decided that I wasn’t ever going to get a testimony in the traditional TBM sense of the word, and that I could stop thinking there was something wrong with me because of it. After 10 years of praying and reading my scriptures every day, I just stopped caring about getting an answer since I figured if I was meant to get one HF had plenty of time to give me some kind of an inkling.
That sounds healthy, to get rid of the guilt. We shouldn’t be carrying that around needlessly, worrying about what others think or if we are measuring up to others’ expectations. Going to church and worshipping God needs to uplift us, not burden us with guilt.
Well said, Asha.
jmb275, Are we pioneers? I really don’t know for sure, but I don’t think so. I feel I’m being tested to endure, not pioneer. Not to say one is harder than the other, just different.
Can we compare our trials to our ancestors? I don’t think so. Our access to knowledge through the Internet presents a different challenge in our day. Sometimes I wonder if I was called to do some great thing, would I know I just needed to do it because it is not even close to the gray matter that makes things fuzzy as what’s right and wrong.
Remember when Naaman went to Elisha to be healed of leprosy and was offended by being asked to do a simple act in an insignificant body of water? His servant reminded him…
Quote:“My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
“Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean” (2 Kings 5:13–14).
I guess overall, I always feel like truth should stand on its own. I don’t understand guidance from leaders to “stay away” from certain books. If the book is a bunch of lies, why should I worry if I read it? Am I not adult enough to figure out what is true and what is not? Do I have to rely on leaders to tell me what is true? If so, I say they go back to putting the bible into latin and we can have bishops read it to us and interpret it for us.
