[HRHB]

Old-Timer wrote:

HTHB, fwiw, I understand the anger and emotional reaction, but I think you have painted the leadership in the worst possible light – and I think that portrayal is no more accurate than the sanitized portrayals of Joseph Smith that played a major role in your crisis.

In other words, I simply would counsel you not to be what you condemn in others. Frankly, I don’t think either extreme is healthy or accurate. They simply are the opposite sides of the same coin.

Ray,

Thanks for your response. I confess that I was having a particularly difficult time when I wrote that. It may represent stronger less politically correct language than I would normally use, however, it is an accurate representation of my true thoughts, feelings and experience which is what the survey was asking for. I will delete it if you would like me to. I am curious however about you sense that I painted the leaders in the worst possible light. I only described what I experienced and I’m confused about where you find error in any of my conclusions that led to my “painting.” It may help that I have loved revered and followed their counsel for the vast majority of my life believing that they speak the oracles of God as they claim. It may be that I am symbolically coming to Lehi with my bow in hand and asking where I should go to hunt for food. If I’m understanding your intent I should ask Lehi a little more kindly? On the other hand, my perception is that many a Nephi has been kindly asking a Lehi and been told to go starve. Now asking Lehi is an act of courage few feel the fire in the belly to act on or are too afraid to make an approach and simply don’t. Thus, Annonymous Internet surveys get created in order to provide information that may lead Lehi to either answer or change course. See my comment about neither prophesying, seeing or revealing.

Respectfully. HRHB

[HRHB]

Here is my midnight ramble to the FC study:

My faith crisis began as I pursued a greater understanding and testimony of Joseph Smith. Vaughn J. Featherstone visited my mission in the 1990’s and committed us to seek a greater knowledge of Joseph Smith and his life and mission. It took me several years to eventually pursue this course, but eventually I made time for it. Prior to my FC, you would have characterized me as that guy who earnestly and honestly lived my religion and shared and converted people to the gospel before during and after my full-time mission. I have paid tithing on my gross income since the age of accountability. I haven’t missed attending church on a weekly basis, other than an occasional vacation, since I was baptized at 8 years old. I ignorantly picked up a copy of “No Man Knows My History” at Costco one afternoon and was completely enamored by what I learned once I began reading. I began fact checking and trying to defend Joseph Smith against what I felt were anti-Mormon lies at the time. However, the more I read, the more obvious to me it became that Joseph was a severely disturbed individual who could not have been what he claimed. I eventually came to accept that by some way I could not understand, he brought the gospel in its fullness to the earth despite being severely flawed. The BOM saved me many times during my initial periods of doubt, but the nail in the coffin for me is the DNA missing from any indigenous people in the America’s linking them to Hebrew ancestry. The arguments made by apologists for the church just made matters worse for me. Lehi’s and his descendants never existed outside the minds of the creator(s) of the BOM. I can not accept that a loving god would preserve plates for 2000+ years so that we could have a record of a people whose ancestors were in existence only to discover that he switched their DNA to confuse us. If his work and glory is to bring more souls to him, then physical evidence should support the revealed truth, not contradict it.

My FC has unalterably changed the course of my life, left me feeling angry, betrayed, confused, alone and afraid to lose my wife and kids, disappoint my larger family and live life authentically. To put it bluntly, I am pissed off at Joseph Smith and the current leaders, if they can be called that, of the church. They claim they are prophets, seers and revelators and yet they neither prophecy, see nor reveal. At least Joseph Smith pretended to do all three. If the leaders of the church are what they claim, then why don’t they seek revelation like Joseph Smith did to clarify so many of the issues that are before the church today. The name of the organization should be changed to The Corporation of the Entity That Pretends To Be Jesus Christ’s Church. It is appalling to me that the leaders of the church, as educated as they are, either have never researched the information so easily accessible to anyone with an Internet connection and then come to such rational conclusions or they are genuinely OR willfully ignorant of the problems and effectively take no responsibility or action with regard to them. They slough off their responsibility for such matters to “non official” church apologists. It is insulting, infuriating and disgusting to me. It is impossible to respect them in this condition. I have not gone to any priesthood leader with my thoughts, feelings, pains or concerns and don’t think that I will because to do so would jeopardize my ability to be with my family for significant life events that involve the temple and a recommend. I am willfully dishonest in my temple recommend interview and tithing settlement because the church has forced me to do so. There are no more bald face hypocritical questions asked of me than those in the TR interview. Ironically, I do not violate the WOW, LOC, or any other major commandments. I love my ward members and non-member neighbors the same. The truth could have prevented me from a faith crisis.

[HRHB]

😯

[HRHB]

mercyngrace wrote:

HRHB,

How is your wife doing?

That is a good question. I have been pretty honest with her about my feelings and discoveries. Not overly detailed, but she is college educated and very intelligent. She says she thinks the whole thing sucks because she loves me but doesn’t feel the same as I do. She’s not very deep when it comes to these matters. It would be difficult for her to find much interest in “studying” the BOM much less reading theory about DNA as it relates to Native American origins. It would never occur to her to wonder where the actual temple endowment came from or that it ever even evolved. Again, she is a very smart woman and I am in awe of her strength, I just think that, for her, looking at these things is still taboo. I think that she feels that since I may not believe some things, that it is up to her now to teach them to our children alone and that privately I’ll be mocking those teachings.

On a side note, I feel somewhat of a coward. My whole life I have been one of the leaders of our family. Parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews have all seen me as an example. I don’t need that part, but my fear is that if I left or even partially expressed my serious doubts, it would negatively impact my relationships and standing with them. Like my wife said, this just sucks!

[HRHB]

I am so thankful for StayLDS and the people who have responded to me. I know that I am pretty hit and miss, but I’m a busy guy. I’m certainly not out of the woods yet, but indeed, “Things do get better.” Some days are tougher than others. I have been listening to Podcasts and reading online about things. I would say that I don’t think my testimony of the church is getting any stronger, but it is evolving. I continue to be content to stay right where I am at because my marriage means more to me than leaving a church I have serious doubts about. I suppose that I believe that truth will ultimately prevail and my wife and I will one day understand things the same. I don’t feel a need to bolt from the church like I can imagine some would. There are great benefits for me and my family by staying. Thanks you again from the bottom of my troubled heart to all you who have offered your insight, knowledge and experience. It is greatly appreciated.

Speaking of the truth ultimately prevailing, Am I the only one who has a sense that the church as we know it is in peril and doesn’t know it?

[HRHB]

Thanks Ray, That was helpful. I feel that I am doing a pretty good job of most of what you are suggesting. At least I think I am. I have assured her that I am neither looking for a way out of the church or that I plan to leave. She isn’t buying it. She thinks it is a done deal that I will inevitably leave. She won’t hear it otherwise and because of how I feel, it is “ruining her fairytale.” Incorrectly, I responded, with, “I’m not wrecking your fairytale, I didn’t ask to know the things I know now and wish I had known from the beginning.” I do not try to sway her are convince her she is wrong. To the contrary, I support her belief and assure he that I respect it even If I don’t completely share it any more. Last night during FHE, she gave a lesson on modesty. Later she told me that she felt terribly uncomfortable because she thought I was mocking her inside about the message. This was not true at all. I would never mock her beliefs or intentionally hurt her. Especially about this. I suppose that part of my problem is that I am not exactly sure what to think or feel anymore. I feel very numb. I didn’t want this to go down this way. Now I feel angry that I am possibly going to suffer the consequences for someone else’s behavior.

I just can’t wrap my head around some of these things that I have put on ice for so many years. Angels, Gold Plates, opportune revelations, infidelity/polygamy, blacks and the priesthood. Why was any of that necessary. What we teach and believe could have just as easily been accomplished without all that. Sorry for the rant.

[HRHB]

My son and I are assigned two active families in our ward. We make and keep our monthly appointments with them. We absolutely love these families and love looking after them and their needs. However, my favorite assignment is the 3 inactive, disinterested, wayward, whatever you want to call them members that are also assigned to me. One of them is a Christian Family that actively promotes the “Mormons are not Christian” line. I actively love and “home teach” them multiple times a month even though they have no knowledge of my assignment. My visits have consisted of anonymously mowing their yards, pulling in their trash can’s, having a friendly chat with them about the local sports teams, asking about their children and remembering their names and birthdays, having them over for a swim or BBQ, or discussing their careers, family and successes or shortcomings. I’m not even sure then know that I am LDS. For me, this is the essence of decipleship. Between God and I, he knows that I love and look after them. It brings me great joy and satisfaction love and serve this way without acknowledgment. By no means am I perfect at this or even the best home teacher, I just find that this is something that makes me happy to do whether a leader gives me an assignment or not. I am sorry that you had a bad experience and/or got offended. That is a difficult situation and it is understandable. Hopefully things are better now. :thumbup:

[HRHB]

Quote:

I might think of it this way “I have doubts and questions about that, but if I meet God someday and find out it’s all really true, then I would be happy with it. That would be just fine with me.”

Thanks Brian. Being the “functionalist” that I am, this works for me.

Quote:

HRHB, is there anything specific that you think you lied about?

Mike, I suppose that I question the existence of god and whether there really is only one person on the earth with all the authority. But, I said yes. I milled over the idea of being completely honest, but I didn’t have an hour or two to give and didn’t feel comfortable sharing my doubts and concerns in a setting I might be judged in when I’m not certain of how I really feel. I am also accepting the idea of just towing the line for the sake of my wife and kids. And, I actually like Mormons and most of mormon doctrine whether it is real or true or not. It works for me to a large extent.

Tithing has never been an issue for me until recently. I always took the 10% of gross line until I realized that I was having to pay money to enter the temple. I had never seen it that way before. Now, I pay what I feel is right for me. And, when I pay, I pay directly to SLC via bank transfer. So far my bishop has never questioned me about my “yes” answer to paying a full tithe at tithing settlement even though my statement says “$0.” :thumbup:

[HRHB]

Well, it has been a little more than a week since my initial post. 😳 I would like to have posted and replied more since then, but someone has to make a living to feed this family and pay the bills. I wanted to thank those of you who responded and welcomed me to the forum. I found your responses helpful and comforting. :clap:

For me, I don’t think that I will ever really leave the church, although in someways I feel it has left me. Somehow, I have found a way to believe in being good, loving and serving and IMO, the church, albeit imperfect, is the best vehicle in which to do that while raising a family.

Sometimes I have to stop myself from delving into the historical past and faith claims because I get obsessed by it and then have a difficult time functioning in other areas of my life. It seems so strange that we can’t have more open dialogue about these things in the church. I get the sense that mass numbers of members will start to think and feel the same way I do and then one day we’ll all just look at each other and say, “Who are we kidding?” Some will leave, but I think most will stay for the reasons I do. I figure, that will probably happen in my lifetime, so I can be patient. Maybe even help it along.

Sorry for the random thoughts. These posts are my first attempts at writing/verbalizing how I really feel about all of this. Can’t imagine saying any of this to my bishop. :crazy:

Any advice about speaking to my spouse about this? I have always been honest with her about everything, but I find myself holding back about this. I have already shared some with her, but I’m not sure how much is enough.

[Author]

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