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That book sounds cool. It sounds like there are more men than I know who can relate to what a lot of women go through. Just like church going men are instructed to be the nice guy, church going women are instructed to be passive, humble, long suffering, and well anything but head strong and powerful. I can only truly speak for myself, but what this guy was talking about-danger, adventure, passion in an attempt to become godlike-I feel that lacking in what women’s Christian roles are as well. Maybe you should start a group of masculinists
I was under the assumption that the protection was a type of spiritual protection, and that as you remembered the symbols it would help you to keep the spirit in your life. I have heard people talk about that physical protection but I thought that was Mormon folklore. I guess my point in saying women with different emotional buttons is that not all women are emotional when bearing their testimony. If you feel the cultural pressure to cry, imagine how much more women feel it. I agree that the church is making an effort to do good things for its women, but from my perspective, the messages seem a little mixed.
That image is great! It demonstrates what orson was talking about so well. We decide what our society thinks is racy and what isn’t. And ragdoll Sally, that sounds a little intense. Maybe you should show him this image It also does not appeal to women with different emotional ‘buttons’. That comment in the article thread was so sexist it made my skin crawl. I don’t think it is women taking over and inflicting their feminine ways of feeling the spirit onto the mass culture on the church. I am semi-young, but I see a huge push to BE that woman. The underlying culture that I feel is that for a woman to be viewed as spiritual and a good ‘relief society’ woman she needs to bake and have table cloths and lace ect. That comment really boiled my blood so to speak because it assumes all women are ignorant, emotionally based and don’t like to get into deep doctrine. Sorry afterall-I think that was off topic a little. I’m not sure what the overall theme of the conference really was, but from this article all I can extrapolate is that we have many good and faithful women who stayed strong despite their obvious oppression. I’m not sure if that is something that should be praised or pitied.
I totally relate on the garment issue. You probably already know that if you read the thread that Ray linked. I do have another thought for you. Can you spiritually wear your garments day and night? If you can put on your spiritual armor, then this could work for you feeling ok about answering that question, maybe. I have two years before my next meeting. I just went through the temple and I don’t wear garments at all. If you fo,llowed that other thread you probably know that I have other reasons too, but I agree with everything you’ve said in your post. Good luck with your journey! I’ve been out of this for awhile, but glad to be back! What a great discussion! This is a topic that I have always felt strongly about and actually spoken out about. I don’t believe modesty is all about your neckline or your shoulders showing. I think modesty comes a lot from what is on the inside; how you carry yourself. Orson, I love what you said about the temptation being greater for those who rarely encounter it.
Silent Dawning, I understand where you’re going with your brownie analogy, and I know this is not how you meant it, but consider this twist on it. What if the brownies were just trying to be proud of who they are? Not by being in your face, but just existing. To put them away would make them feel like they were doing something wrong. I feel that the church needs to figure out a way to make it’s girls/women feel like they are not being “put away.” ( Side note, when I am actually dieting, the church does not do a very good job of putting their literal brownies away…and it tempts me to break the wow and eat like crap. But I’ll leave that for another thread
I may have shared this story on here before…but when I was 16 I went to EFY. My mom bought me special clothes to make sure I would be modest-but I got in trouble for my clothes every single day. It’s because of my body type, and there is nothing I can do about that. (Trust me, I’ve tried.) Through all my teen years I tried so hard to dress modestly, but because of my body type I was always given grief about everything I wore. At some point I sort of gave up and started dressing in clothes that made me feel good about my body instead of trying to meet an ‘impossible’ standard. That worked for me with that particular issue, but it would not have worked for all girls/women.
I don’t believe that women should have to feel responsible for the thoughts of others. I think that women should dress appropriately for the situation they are in, be it at the beach, out to dinner or at church. I think that the desire to be modest should come from what you feel good and comfortable in and that modesty in action is so much more important than adhering to a letter of the law standard of modesty set forth so you don’t have to make decisions for yourself.
I have very little time (since I am getting married in 60 hours!) but thank you for all of your comments. I had to subdue my rage and commit to going to the temple once a month, but I got the go ahead to be sealed! That is the very specific statement of conviction the SP was looking for. This whole experience has been eye opening, but through all of it I have felt that the Lord loves me and is aware of me. So whatever happens with my SP and bishop (I will be getting a new bishop-thank goodness!) at least it has not hurt my relationship with the Lord. If anything it has made it grow stronger because I can now more clearly separate the Lord from the church without thinking I must be wrong. Today I was able to focus on what I need to and am getting really excited! Thanks for all the advice-and Cwald I don’t live in the area…but I’m sorry if my story sounds familiar in anyway. Ray, I thought you were a woman, and then a man, and then a woman again. Lol. Good to know! My reasons for saying that are things like when they bless you that you will become a queen unto your husband and not God, How Eve covenants with Adam and not directly to God in the video, the prayer circle and the revealing of the name thing. The video was really the worst for me. I felt like Eve might as well have been Adams dog. Just my opinion though 🙂 I do agree that neutral is WAY better than it could have gone though! Much much better!I am so sorry for your struggles! I am going through something a little different, but I feel like I can relate at least a little to what you are feeling. I am feeling a little lost right now in certain areas, but despite that I have such a strong testimony that Heavenly Father loves all of us! He expects us to fall short-that is part of the plan! Although people can be judgmental, (I am trying to tell myself this now as well!) we are ALL sinners! I don’t know if it’s helpful for you to know this or not, but I have been in my singles ward for 9+ years. From what I know it seems that most of the people in my ward have or are struggling with the law of chastity. You are not alone in this struggle! I also want to tell you about my parents. My mom got pregnant at 17, and married my dad. She came from an inactive family, but decided she wanted to be part of the church. He did not, but four years later my mom almost lost a baby (me) when her water broke at five months. She got a blessing from the missionaries and when the doctors came back in it was as if it had never happened. I was born 2 days before my due date and my dad joined the church. No one they know knows that she got pregnant at 17, they are a strong mormon family in the ward. I know that this story is not the norm, but to me it just shows that one, you never know what might happen down the line and two, you never know what lies in peoples past. No one is perfect, and that is the plan.
Thanks everyone. Again, can I just say that I am so happy that I found this site? I had my fiance read a few of the threads yesterday and he said he wants to get on here so he can give me advice too, lol. He is at peace with who he is as a “casual mormon” so he doesn’t feel driven to be on a site like this. I am obviously not at peace with where I am at, but I hope someday I will be. I think the decision I’m making is probably the correct one…I’m just still really scared about breaking the rules (everyday) for the first time in my life. My best friend, who also struggles with this issue, told me a few months ago not to let the guilt overwhelm me. Now I totally understand what she was talking about. It’s really a shame that my issue is one that is visibly obvious. I wish I didn’t care what others thought, because that is what I feel the most worried about, not God. Which is wrong of me, but I can’t help it. I just hope that someday soon I can go back to being my normal happy self and that this won’t change my life as drastically as it has the potential to do. I am the last person who should be answering this question, lol, but it has always been my understanding that both are true. We will get all the people we missed in the millineum. Does this make temple work somewhat pointless? It seems like it might. Maybe just less work to do during the millenium? Thanks, I am holding up as good as can be expected. We went to dinner and I started crying in the restaurant, then to get massages but I couldn’t relax. I have considered just going tomorrow because I did think about the fact that I have a valid temple recommend. My stake president is a really good man, and I think he is conflicted about this as well. He spent two hours on the phone today trying to figure out what to do for my situation, and that’s when he came back to me with the therapist idea. He means well. I have just thought of every possible scenario. If it’s possible for a brain and soul to be sore, mine are! I do really want to help others who have this same problem, so I might see what the therapist says and maybe see if that changes how I feel about any of it, or changes how the SP feels about any of it. I’m scared that I really shouldn’t go because I really can’t keep that covenant. (Although, as I’ve said in other posts I do feel like HF understands) I am just extremely depressed now too. It’s pretty miserable.
