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mackay11 wrote:
I thought the church already have their own young men’s program… Isn’t it called… the young men’s program (like the young women program)? Duty to God is the achievement program and the youth leaders organise activities/events and camps.
Or do we just have a different version of the church in UK. The franchised version. Like the original but trimmed down of the best (or worst?) bits…
How do you get away without Scouts in the UK? Here is Canada it is a mixed bag in the church. Some wards/stakes don’t care much for it, and others hold to the dogma and preach all sorts of “Pres Monson says Scouting is of God…” mumbo jumbo. I am in one of these stakes, but luckily, I serve with the deacons in a ward that doesn’t care about the program.
Scouts Canada doesn’t have issues allowing gays in Scouting, but I am sure our LDS troops differ. I don’t know how it is South of the border, but up here we don’t go to big overnight scout events because Scouts Canada has girls at these events. I think our leaders just assume that there are no gay LDS scouts, even though I have had 3 boys go through my program in the last 2 years that I wouldn’t be shocked if they came out. In fact only 1 of 3 boys in my family got his Chief Scout Award (Eagle equivalent) he happens to be the gay brother. I love pointing this out to people who try to preach the fallacy that if a boy earns their chief/eagle, they will be more likely to serve a mission, marry in the temple etc. But that is a side tangent.
Old-Timer wrote:Also, for the record, just to put it out there and not as an admin stance of any kind, I personally don’t like the term “gays”. It carries too much of a slur in society and in my own experience.
Out of interest sake, what term do you prefer. I find that homosexual has to much of a clinical diagnosis feeling for my liking.
I too would like to see scouts abandoned by the church for an entirely different set of reasons.
I love reading peoples stories. Thanks for sharing yours. I admire it when people can have so much figured out, so early in life. Unfortunately I still had a fairly narrow view when I served my 2 years (million dollar experience I wouldn’t pay another penny for). I enjoyed your comments and thoughts on prayer. For the past few years I have tried to enjoy praying. It does nothing for me. Same with reading the scriptures. I try but it is pretty rare that I enjoy the fruits. This past year I have started meditating somewhat irregularly. I can definitely say that through meditation I feel a stronger tie to spiritual things. There are some things Christianity, and specifically our church, does well. But there is definitely, in my mind, some value and need for Eastern philosophies.
I couldn’t agree more. Gay marriage has been legal here in Canada for quite some time now, and our society hasn’t fallen apart. We need to stop trying to hold other people accountable to our value system. Careful, its a slippery slope though. First I accepted gay marriage and now, after taking lots of time to study it out and ponder, I am no longer convinced that God looks on it a an abomination. That stance, I have found, is a little more difficult to come out of the closet about. Even in a family with an openly gay brother.
rebeccad wrote:Thank you for sharing this, I am also debating renewing my temple recommend. I plan on going over the great series of discussions about the temple recommend questions that were done on this board over the summer. They were helpful to me then, and I anticipate they will be now.
I highly recommend reading the section on Temple Recommends in the
How To Stay LDSWayfarer, you have to go through 3 interviews? Is it your stake or mine that has reformed the policy?
Church0333, I think that level of comfort is related to the way I felt during the interview. This site has definitely helped me to understand my transition and see it in the scope of the big picture. Thanks everyone.
I have seen bishopric members with full beards. This policy is one of those cultural myths. My mother in law used to tell my wife that I would never be allowed to serve with the youth if I didn’t shave. Have been serving in ym presidencies for 4 years now, in 2 different stakes. All through differing forms of beards and mustaches. I have a feeling that beards on temple workers might be a temple specific rule. Different presidencies will website different policies which may or may not be imaginary. For example read up on the FMH poll regarding temple baptism policies in regards to menstruation.
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I’ve just shared it on my facebook feed. I’ll be interested to see what reaction I get. I’m not ‘out’ as middle-way but made a comment that might have hinted at such. Feel a little nervous.I did the same thing and haven’t had any lash back yet. This website gives me a lot of hope for the church and its stance on gays. It will be nice to have something to back me up next time there is a homophobic remark in church.
True story: a guy in our ward was teaching priesthood a few Sundays back and said something to the effect of “they used to take gays and nail their penis to a tree…as it should be.” Luckily I teach the deacons and missed that one, but I am hoping this message will reach guys like that.
I gave up reading part way through. It is attitudes like his that make people who have a less traditional belief feel uncomfortable in the church. It makes them feel like they have to leave. I wish more people would read and think about Elder Holland’s words: Quote:we’re not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. … We would say: ‘This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I’m going forward. If I can help you work toward that I’d be glad to, but I don’t love you less; I don’t distance you more; I don’t say you’re unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can’t make that step or move to the beat of that drum.’ … We really don’t want to sound smug. We don’t want to seem uncompromising and insensitive.
I get really frustrated when people feel they have a moral/religious/political high ground over other people. This goes for all sides of moral/religious/political debates. The minute one party feels superior over another relationships will break down. I have come to accept that what drives me and makes me happy won’t necessarily work for everyone and that is fine. If being TBM is the way he feels the greatest amount of spiritual peace, good for him. It makes me uncomfortable that he (and a majority of church members) feel it has to be the prescription for everyone.
My folks just came home off a mission and spent a week with us. I found a similar tone in their conversations about people who don’t follow the church the way they do. They were telling me about a family we know who recently left the church and how they were being rebellious. I really wish this were not the norm. I wish people were willing to accept how complex the world really is.
On a similar note, I found this in my Google+ feed this articleI served most of my mission on the Navajo reservation. 2 hour church was the norm there and I loved it. A few years back I was in a ward in Calgary that due to building constraints had 2.5 hour church. That was also a decent option. The last 2 meetings were just cut back by 15 minutes. I teach the deacons now and spend at least 15 minutes per class just chatting with the boys anyways that last 45 minutes is to long of a hall otherwise.
SamBee wrote:He’s also lord of the air.
So don’t many missionaries have to cross water anyway?
What about drinking the stuff in sacrament?
Or baptizing in the stuff.I haven’t figured this one out yet. My kids are still very young. I really want to emphasize waiting from a positive outlook, so as not to trap them into feeling guilty about sex even after marriage. Seems like that is a common issue. I am also concerned about teaching then about the importance of protection without seeming like I am advocating sex before marriage. I think it is a fine line though.
I totally get your concern. My wife and I were talking about this tonight. I have felt that from both sides. A couple years ago we felt we were guided to move west, a move that in retrospect has put us in a worse financial position. I feel like this was a manifestation of our desires more than anything else (and I don’t regret it). A far as what is right now, I concur that we don’t need to rush into things. If we sincerely do what we feel is best after careful contemplation I can’t see getting thrust down to hell. Since I have seen examples of it leading people in seemingly contradictory directions, I can accept that it may show me a different path.
Thanks wayfarer, that definitely gives me a lot to chew on for a while. I have always accepted the servants definition of God as an omnipotent, omnipresent being full of supernatural wonders etc. I can see how thinking outside this box opens up greater possibilities for understanding and enlightenment. Lots of thinking to do now. Orson wrote:The short answer to the title question: As much as we allow Him to act through us.
I quite like that thought. The idea that stands out to me is that God’s participation in our lives is mainly to serve others. It changes the notion from what is he going to do for me, to what is he going to help me do for others.
I just finished day 16 of Deepak Chopra’s 21 Day Meditation Challenge. Today’s centring thought was “Today, I remember to be grateful.” For me it was a well timed message and thought for contemplation, especially given my reluctance to ask for blessings. One that struck a chord with me was that being thankful is a good way of asking for blessings. By acknowledging the good things you have it is like saying: “This is good, can I have more of this?”
Thanks for all your thoughts and input on this.
