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I personally don’t like the word “fight” when it comes to overcoming addictions. Addicts in recovery don’t use that word often because they know that fighting an addiction is fruitless. People in recovery have found success only because they stopped fighting and surrendered. I hope they are not teaching our young men that they can fight their sex drive through will power. If so, they’re setting them up for failure.
I started attending LDS ARP meetings a little over three years ago for a porn addiction. While I believe that not all porn users are addicted, I certainly was. My first meeting was at a men only, porn addiction meeting. I didn’t like it and was embarrassed to be there. I almost didn’t come back, but the missionary that ran the meeting introduced himself to me afterward and told me to come back. I still remember his piercing eyes as he issued that invitation.
I came back to the next meeting and regularly attended for about six months. Those meetings were a source of strength for me and I gleaned a lot of knowledge that was instrumental in me successfully working through the twelve steps.
The steps worked! I have been completely free of porn & masturbation since my first meeting. I have scarcely entertained a lustful thought in the last three years and feel completely free from those chains. The meetings were one of many tools I used to find lasting change, and I was grateful for them.
I still attend meetings occasionally to share what I’ve learned with others.
I attended BYU-Idaho a decade ago and I can tell you that my ward leaders barely knew I existed. One semester I ward hopped and attended a new ward nearly every week. The only problem you will run into is that you will need to renew your ecclesiastical endorsement with your bishop of record every year. So as long as he feels you are somewhat active in his ward, you should be good.
It is common for students to drive to their parents’ house on the weekend and attend church with them. You would likely not be the only one with spotty attendance in your ward.
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.”
He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and
faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
The way I see it, faith is a choice in the sense that we can choose to feed it, or feed its opponent.
Heber13 wrote:I wonder at times if God and the universe don’t even notice tithes…maybe tithing is really just for me.
I know we’ll be blessed for being charitable whether God is keeping score or not. I believe that many of the blessings we receive for keeping God’s commandments are simply natural (positive) consequences of implementing wise council.
My motivation for paying tithing has evolved throughout my life. Here’s a rough timeline of my progression: Age 8 – 21: I paid tithing to be obedient to God’s commandments. Age 21-34: I saw tithing as an investment. I expected to receive tangible temporal rewards greater than the value of the monetary contributions I was imparting. I often cited the promise in Malachi to remind me of what I was going to get in return. Age 33: I had a faith crisis and my paradigm drastically changed. I began seeing tithing more as an act of gratitude. The only blessing I expected in return was improved character attributes and faith that come from willingly imparting of a portion of my substance for what I believe in. Age 35(my current age): I still see it as an act of gratitude, but as my paradigm has continued to evolve I now see it as a way of taking ownership of the church. When we pay tithing I believe we become partners with God in His work. Whether it’s money or time, those contributions bless us directly in the fact that we get to be apart of His work and His glory. That, in and of itself, is reward enough for me because my greatest desire is to become like Him. In reflecting back on how my motivation has evolved overtime it is reasonable to expect that it will continue to evolve.
Rob, great post. I somewhat agree with you on your point that arousal is not bad. To some degree, when and how we get aroused is outside of our control. Of course, we should not feel guilty or ashamed for that which we cannot control. However, there are a lot of things that arouse us that are completely in our control.
We need do a lot less shaming and a lot more teaching. I have been presenting on this subject (porn and what not) at bishop youth counsels throughout my stake and I make it a point to never bring shame into the dialogue. I am pretty sure one bishop was expecting me to heap on the shame, and was disappointed when I didn’t. I also don’t just talk about porn, but include many of the temporal things we become dependent upon that stand between us and God. I aim to have those kids leave inspired, not burdened with guilt.
I also make sure they know I once had a problem with porn myself. This typically shocks people because our church culture does not share past transgressions opening, but I have found that if people know they are not alone and hear a voice of hope from someone that has overcame it, they will be inspired to change. As I understand it, the theory behind hiding past transgressions was to not give people a reason to engage in sin by thinking, “Brother So-and-So used to look at porn and he turned out fine, so I can indulge in it.” I have not found that this theory to be true. Those that want to stop will be inspired. Those that don’t want to stop won’t stop no matter what, so it doesn’t matter what you say.
For every person that comes before me with this problem I make sure they understand that what they are up against is common and extremely hard to master. Before they come to me they are almost always beating themselves up over it, and helping them see that they are not evil spawns of satan helps immensely. I don’t start making progress with them until they start to believe that they are a good person trying to do a very hard thing.
I do believe that the pendulum can swing too far to the other side. I certainly believe that the message that porn and sexual fantasy are benign and morally acceptable is much louder than the opposition. That side of the argument does not need any help from us.
Rob, good to hear from you! I have missed you. Quote:devilsadvocate wrote:As far as I can tell the main tangible negativ consequence of porn is simply many wives not being happy about it sometimes to the point of divorce but if someone is single or their wife doesn’t know about it or care about it that much then in many cases it looks like it will never result in any significant negative consequences for all we really know.
The fact that it breaks wives’ hearts is reason enough, but there are plenty of tangible reasons to avoid it.
Read
He Restoreth My Soul; there are plenty of tangible negative consequences. Here’s a few highlights : There is significant scientific evidence that porn use causes the frontal cortex to shrink which diminishes one’s ability to think rationally. As a result one is likely to engage in wreckless behavior without even being capable of considering the consequences; The pleasure centers of the brain atrophy under the burden of unnatural bursts of neural transmitters causing diminished ability to feel joy (depression) and contributes to erectile dysfunction; In many cases it inhibits people from pursuing real relationships in favor of fantasy. It doesn’t just tear apart marriages, but in many cases it prevents them from ever happening. The brain damage caused by porn usage is real. Research shows that it takes about two years to completely reverse the damage by abstaining.
BUT , I must point out that the problem is not porn itself, it is the sexual fantasy associated with it that is damaging. Exposing your eyeballs to nudity is just one way to indulge. Your imagination can do the same damage if you let it run wild. Ogling women, or even flirting, can give you a “hit” of these drugs.
I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t flirt if you are single. If you are married and are flirting (with people that are not your spouse), you are likely subconsciously chasing a high – Please stop.
It is true that porn itself is not a drug, BUT your body produces and releases real drugs as a result of the stimuli. Your body releases adrenalin, endorphins, and dopamine in response to exposure. Yes, this is a natural process and is there for a purpose, however, porn is most certainly not natural and essentially hacks that natural system and pushes it beyond its limits.
All addictive drugs trigger dopamine. That is why they are pleasurable. All addictive substances hack the natural reward systems in our brain in an unnatural way. There is always a downside to hacking those systems. ALWAYS!
Let’s not wait for the psychiatric community to tell us it’s bad. It is what it is.
If tomorrow the prophet announced that porn was no longer morally wrong, I still wouldn’t touch it.
For those of you that don’t think porn viewing is an addiction, I am confident you will change your mind (at least a little) once you read He Restoreth My Soul. It is written by a neurosurgeon and he explains what happens in the brain when it is exposed to pornography. It’s very similar to what happens to a cocaine addict’s brain. Your brain doesn’t care if you call it an addiction or not; it is what it is. http://www.amazon.com/Restoreth-Soul-Understanding-Spiritual-Pornography/dp/B0039UVUMK I know we typically use the word addiction to refer to people that are out of control, but I think of the word meaning an “unhealthy dependency”. Frequency of use doesn’t matter. If I am dependent once a month on something unhealthy, or every day, I have an addiction. I know this definition differs from that of of its normal use. Let’s not get hung up on semantics.
Porn is certainly not healthy. It’s not good for the body, mind,or spirit. The first two can be backed up by science, but the last one is just as true.
The psychiatric community uses porn as treatment for certain sexual dysfunctions. One could look at this as evidence that porn is good. However, psychiatry has a poor track record of using treatments that in hindsight have been seen as barbaric (example: electro-shock for homosexuals). Heck, António Egas Moniz won a nobel prize for inventing an awesome procedure called a lobotomy that was suppose to treat all sorts of stuff… oops.
Here is a good essay mentioning 70% of LDS men looking at porn. There really is no way of knowing the actual percentage, but there is definitely evidence to support the claim. (Please note that the essay has 9 pages, you can advance to the next page at the bottom) http://rowboatandmarbles.org/silent-seventy-percent-of-lds-men-look-at-porn The following link provides stats from an actual study of Christian men. LDS men would be a subset of this group, but I doubt their numbers would be much different:
http://www.provenmen.org/2014pornsurvey/christian-porn-stats/ I have the nasty habit of jumping onto a thread late and then killing it. So here I go… I’ve seen this article posted on facebook and other forums. For the most part I agree with the main point the author is trying to make that shaming is harmful.
I consumed porn regularly between the ages of 10 and 33, and I know that shaming did nothing but destroy my self esteem and made turning to it even easier. However, I do not think shame is the enemy.
Unbridled lust is most certainly the enemy. Looking at women (or men) as sexual objects is the enemy. We live in a culture that tells us if it feels good, do it so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. With that paradigm it is easy for us to write off porn and masturbation as benign. The truth is, porn is a cancer. It’s negative effects are not always apparent, but it will eventually rot your mind and soul. It’s true.
I thought my porn use was justified and under control. I even stopped feeling bad about telling my bishop and stake presidency that I lived the law of chastity. Yet, after 23 years my world finally came crashing down. Certainly did – It always does. Even with using porn and masturbation at a modest rate I stopped loving my wife. The spark was gone. The romance was dead. She couldn’t arouse me like she used to. After 10 years our marriage was practically dead.
Fortunately I recognized this before things got worse and before she caught me in my secret lude acts. I was able to reveal my problem to her on my own terms, and get the help I needed. Two years have passed since my turn around and I have fallen completely head over heals in love with my wife again. Seriously, our relationship is better than when we were dating, or even newlyweds. I know without a doubt that this would not be the case if I was lusting after other women (which I have chosen not to).
Looking at anyone (besides your spouse) with the intention of getting aroused is most certainly wrong. I differ with the author completely on this point – Extending the term pornography to cover women in bikinis is entirely appropriate. Maybe it’s just a disagreement in semantics, but when I hear people in anyway justify this stuff it makes me sick. *Sigh* However, I have patience with them knowing I once had that same paradigm.
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” – Jesus
Look, I know all to well the beast that the human sex drive is to bridal. It’s really tough! However, I have found peace and a renewed love for my wife as I have abstained from porn, masturbation, lustful thinking, and anything like unto it.
I should point out that it is only tough at first. Once the beast is tamed it is really easy.
I’m nothing special; I know everyone is capable of doing it. When we turn our lives over to God completely He can make it so.
Sorry I’m late to the discussion. I have had prophetic dreams that when I woke up I knew they were revelations. In most of those instances I later observed them coming to pass. So I am a believer that dreams can be revelation, however, I still have a hard time believing anyone else’s prophetic dreams. I think revelations via dreams are meant to be personal. God would never speak to me through someone else’s dream, unless they were a prophet that had stewardship over me.
In my late teens I started reading Star Wars novels before I went to sleep. Nearly every night I dreamed I was a Jedi with a light saber and I was often dueling with a Dark Sith Lord. It was great fun, and I got rather good with a light saber. I’ve had similar experiences while reading other novels.
My point is, we will likely dream about the things that occupy our mind while we’re awake. People that read about prepping and listen to Glenn Beck are going to have some scary apocalyptic dreams. I know, because I got caught up in that stuff in 2009 and I was scared all the time.
Sometimes I think these preppers would be disappointed if the apocalypse never happened in their lifetime.
Also, thank goodness our dreams are not always prophetic or else I’d be in a lot of trouble right now.
I agree that this is not a Mormon only problem. I consider myself a TBM so I certainly don’t relish the idea that people are leaving. The word “epidemic” was not mine, but that of my stake president. Take it for what is worth. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Our baby sitter went to the meeting. I’ll ask her next time I see her. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I wanted to provide some context of the “Boise Rescue” because their has been a lot of speculation swirling around out there. Unfortunately I don’t know everything, but here is what I pieced together… First, it was in Eagle, Idaho, not Boise. Actually, it was held in the Star Idaho Stake Center which happens to be in Eagle.
Second, three stakes were invited to attend this meeting. All adults from the Star, Eagle, and Meridian North Stakes were invited to attend the meeting that has been posted on Mormon Stories. There was also a meeting early Sunday morning for priests and laurels from those stakes – I imagine a similar message was given to them, but I don’t know.
Third, Before the adult meeting on Saturday there was a leadership meeting where all of the leadership in the greater Boise Area was invited to attend. There, Oaks had some stark warnings and predictions for those leaders. He told everyone there that in ten years we will not be able to share our religious beliefs outside our homes without intense persecution.
Fourth, this meeting was announced in sacrament meeting less than two weeks before it occurred. The news was broke by reading a letter from a seventy (sorry, didn’t recognize or remember the name) urging us all to attend. The only clue we were given to the subject matter was that it was going to address “matters of church history.” No people that I talked to picked up on that meaning this was going to address doubts, apostasy, false prophets, etc. Being familiar with Elder Turley’s involvement with the Swedish Rescue I had a good idea what was coming.
Fifth, Adrian Larsen (
http://www.totheremnant.com/2014/10/40-days-on-death-row.html Sixth, Eagle, Star, and North Meridian are fairly affluent as far as Idaho goes, however, I do not think that money was a determining factor when choosing this area for their presentation. I’ve seen people propagating that theory on message boards and I think it is unwarranted.
Seventh, these three stakes surround the new Meridian Temple being built (still a few years from completion). In fact, the temple is being built in the Star Stake, which is where this presentation was delivered. It is well established in Mormon culture that Satan attacks areas where temples are being built. Whether that is true or not, I don’t know, but I do know Oaks and Turley believe this, and that belief was likely a determining factor in choosing the location.
One last thing – last fall I was speaking with a stake president from one of these stakes (sorry, I don’t want to be specific to protect him). When I told him about my faith crisis and how I know many people leaving the church he told me “oh, it’s epidemic!”. Those were his words exactly. By the tone he used I could tell it was something that greatly concerned him.
