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I don’t think the church will lose it’s stance on the status quo of marriage. However, I do perceive that the US will follow the rest of the world in its course. I just think it will take such a change in a Constitutional marriage law to finally wake up the church to realize that has been subjugated since 1890 to the despotic US federal government. Since, the church lost its fight for polygamy in the 1890s, I don’t think it wants to lose the current fight for the status quo of marriage. I see a lot of irony in the Church’s position. However, the church is poised and has a lot of support from the Christian right on this matter. Many outsiders may see this as another Religion versus secularism affair-which would also be another fair assessment. Historically, Abraham Lincoln was a saint that told congress to leave the Mormon’s alone. Lincoln more than likely would have left polygamy up to popular sovereignty. (I wonder why Satan had Lincoln killed?) It is pretty obvious so that true Christianity would once again be subject to earthly law and limited by corrupt government just like it was during the time of the Roman Empire. At least this time, the government will not take the Church completely over like Emperor Constantine did. Lincoln almost always went with Brigham Young’s way to lead n lieu of any federally appointed territorial governor. I hate politics and to some degree hate government because it destroyed many of my ancestors’ families. If you were white, believed in polygamy, were a Member of the Church in 1890 and lived in Idaho, but did notpractice polygamy you were disenfranchised. At least bi-sexual, trans-gendered, gay and lesbian citizens have a right to vote. Polygamists did not have the right to vote as well as any Mormon for that matter in 1890. At least polygamy had a biblical precedent. Martin Luther the great reformer even sanctioned polygamy, because it was based upon scripture. I guess even sola scritura can lead you into the right direction. Hallelujah for the Bible. I always thought if people could just live the basic ten commandments how better off we would be. I guess that is why God has to keep talking to prophets and give us more word, because as a world we are still not listening. I think Elder Oaks talk was quite simple. I liked three quotes from it: 1) “First, in its fulness the personal line does not function independent of the priesthood line. The gift of the Holy Ghost—the means of communication from God to man—is conferred by priesthood authority as authorized by those holding priesthood keys. It does not come merely by desire or belief. And the right to the continuous companionship of this Spirit needs to be affirmed each Sabbath as we worthily partake of the sacrament and renew our baptismal covenants of obedience and service.” 2) “Similarly, we cannot communicate reliably through the direct, personal line if we are disobedient to or out of harmony with the priesthood line.
The Lord has declared that “the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness” (D&C 121:36). I would like to add that someone ought to read President Uctdorf’s talk on pride and the priesthood. For example when Elder McConkie made his statements on Blacks and the Priesthood I believe he was mistaken thinking they would never get the priesthood, it was his opinion based upon pride and arrogance it was not a gospel truth. I think the hardest thing for men in authority in the church is power and trying to rule without arrogance. It is really difficult. I am so grateful I am a peon in the Lord’s kingdom because many suffer from Pride and the Honor of Men (and I know from experience I am easily susceptible to this.
These two cautions quoted here are true. When I am not even close to my 90% of worthiness, I can’t receive revelation for myself, I am left to logic reason and how I feel at the moment. I remember when I went through my divorce and I was blaming others for it, not taking responsibility for myself–I was even upset about what the Prophet was saying about “Finding Joy in the Journey”-because I felt I had failed in my mortal journey. But then I realized I was the one that needed an attitude adjustment and then after reading the talk 4 times and then having to teach it in Priesthood-I finally got the message: to just “seize my day.” Happiness in life and at church was mainly up to me, and that if I wanted to be happy I had to do something about it and not just sulk and point the finger at others. I had to repent and turn around then the Lord directed me to a “soul mate” and so far I am living happily ever after. However, the Revelation wouldn’t come until I changed my self.
I also like this quote:
3) “We must use both the personal line and the priesthood line in proper balance to achieve the growth that is the purpose of mortal life. If personal religious practice relies too much on the personal line,
individualism erases the importance of divine authority. If personal religious practice relies too much on the priesthood line, individual growth suffers. The children of God need both lines to achieve their eternal destiny. The restored gospel teaches both, and the restored Church provides both.” I like this balance of power approach of revelation, it is really practical and has saved me many times when I have rejected calls to serve because they were out of desperation more than inspiration.
I think that the family proclamation just solidifies the church’s view of the book of Genesis and the creation of Adam and Eve. Yes, much of Genesis is symbolic since it is used to teach fundamental principles of religious faith. Also, it was recorded many thousands of years ago to Moses after the fact. In Western Christianity near the decline of the Roman Empire, one of the theologians by the name of Augustine (c 354-430 AD) believed that the desires for procreation or lust that were to be used within marriage were a necessary evil. Because of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire (which some religionists believe had something to do with sexuality going awry), the Catholic Church viewed marriage itself as a necessary evil and those who would lead a fully celibate (sexless life) as following the divine path or higher path. Now, lets juxtapose this to today. Much of the problem in our current day is that people have a tremendous amount of freedom sexually with birth control and abortion and alternative lifestyles. The fabric of family life in the United States and the rest of the world has already deteriorated. The U.S. has already overextended itself because of its active role at playing peace keeper and keeping the war machine alive, much like the Roman Empire. Trends in history in some ways are repeating themselves. There may become a time when sexuality will be deemed evil in itself because of the widespread discord that sexuality unchecked unleashes on a society through both heterosexual and homosexual activities (i.e. adultery, fornication, pornography, prostitution, sexually abused children, etc.) During the rise of monasticism in Augustine of Hippos day, any form of sexuality was deemed a sin; thus heterosexuality as well as homosexuality, and bestiality would all be condemned. In restored Christianity (Mormonism), the reverse is true. Celibacy is deemed a sin because it disrupts God’s enterprise to procreate to multiply and replenish the earth; the primary purpose of marriage (even though many marry to prevent fornication in my opinion and put off having children to get degrees and make money.) The apostle Paul did say that it would be better to get married than to burn. Purposely not getting married is deemed a sin, because you are not following God’s law to get married and raise a family. Anything contrary to the original intent of Marriage doctrine in essence is a sin. I didn’t always believe this, but I do now. It isn’t the church that society is mad at, it is God; because God does not change. But, cultures and society do change. Satan through time knows this. For example, he has disembodied God through the Council of Nicea. The theory of evolution is misapplied to destroy any concept of God as a creator. Just as the Revised Standard Version of the holy bible humanized Christ and stripped him of his divinity. As a culture, marriage is often perceived as a man made enterprise that is social in nature. In essence, God could not be God without following his own doctrine: “Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man in the Lord. The Family Proclamation isn’t “new” doctrine it just provides doctrinal emphasis due to a new threat to Heavenly Father’s enterprise of clothing spiritual children into temporal bodies to one day be exalted as God is. The prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley read it from the pulpit in September of 1995 and all who sustained him as prophet seer and revelator basically sustain that document as true. When it came out I essentially reduced the photocopy and glued it into my scriptures; It is as good as doctrine to me and I will sustain it as much as I sustain the Prophet. Quote:“This is one area where I have a gripe about church policy. One former bishop told us to stop asking the members for help watching him outside of church.”
That’s very interesting. I don’t understand, you would think that members of the ward could help you watch him. No wonder my wife and I haven’t gone to the temple since we were sealed. The church wants people to serve as ward missionaries, serve in the temple, and do your home teaching. I guess since having your hands full with a special needs child would just make us serve them and our families. Maybe I just need to get the blessing of some general authority to say I am like “Church” exempt since it is very difficult to do anything productive for the church if I can never have anyone except a “paid professional” watch my special needs son. I like that, it is kind of like “tax exempt.” Oh well I guess it is wishful thinking.
I was tested as an ESTJ, but I don’t even remember what the heak it means. This was way back in 1999 when I was going to the community college and trying to find out what to do with my life. Now, 11 years later, I decided to take the test again from two different sites. I ended up with a new personality type and I probably fit it better since lets think-I became a father since then, and I actually have a real job now so I bet my personality type did change. I am now an ESFJ. Hey, that’s great we have something in common. One of my holy envy’s of the Catholic church is the fact that they have like a six hour marriage course that is mandatory before you can get married in the church. I think perhaps we put a little too much emphasis on “temple Prep” versus marriage prep. Yes, the institutes have Celestial marriage classes, but they are not mandatory. I just think that some pre-marriage counseling, or mandatory classes may curb some of the divorce rates in the church. Most of my nonmember friends thought I was crazy for getting married so young the first time. I figure if someone can get their raging hormones under control then perhaps they should wait to get married. I know from a “male” perspective that hormones play a huge factor and then everything else is a check list: Active in church-check, testimony-check, attractive-check, cooks well-check, financial stability-check (men care about this one too), intelligence-check, appears to be good with kids-check (now this is the one that is easier for divorced people to know about each other, especially if the one you remarry is the custodial parent and you can see how they parent from first-hand experience), etc. Oh– another big one; how does the perspective spouse treat their parents, and how do they solve problems. A great source that surveys the historical background for any textual criticism, but really strikes at the issue of Apostasy in ancient Christianity is an LDS source: Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary Perspectives on the Christian Apostasyby Noel B. Reynolds. Chapter 8 within this work is entitled “The Corruption of Scripture in Early Christianity” written by John Gee. This chapter and work overall really strikes at the heart of the matter of Christian Apostasy which pretty much occurred by the second century AD. I don’t think Misquoting Jesus is a must read for everybody. At least do the following after you have a testimony of the Book of Mormon and of the mission of Jesus Christ: If I was going to approach the New Testament from a healthy LDS approach then read the Joseph Smith Translation (JST). Take at least two LDS Institute Classes; one on the gospels, and the second on Acts to the Apostles. I would get grounded into what is actually in the New Testament; why it was written, what was written. John and Paul are a few of the writers who let us know why they are writing. I would read James E. Talmage’s Jesus the Christ along with the Gospels; that provides a pretty good commentary from someone who wrote a book as an Apostle in the Upper Rooms of the Salt Lake Temple. Then by this time after serious study I would then read Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus. I agree with a lot of what Ehrman says because it is logical and makes sense, however, I do not believe everything he says because (1) everything is arguable (he’s an academic) (2) Real-important truth that is arrived at differently than scholars and science arrive at truth is more important. (3) Be careful not to scrutinize to the point to where you abandon the first four principles of the Gospel and a testimony of the savior. Too many academics and philosophers out in the world will commit the straw-man argument where if they find a flaw here, and a flaw there, they will say the whole thing is hogwash. Never, never do that-you discredit yourself by doing so, and will lose more than you will gain. I have advanced degrees and have gotten into a lot of head trips and I realize that (1) To be learned is good if you hearken to the counsels of God (2 Nephi 9:28-29). If you are not spiritually healthy you shouldn’t be on the path to prove or disprove something from purely a carnal mindset (logic alone). Remember (2) to be spiritually minded is life eternal; to be carnally minded is death. Yes, it is true that we do not believe in the infallibility of scripture. But, we do believe in truth as dictated by the Holy Ghost. By the power of the Holy Ghost you shall know the truth of all things. Moroni 10:5. I know from experience that if I am angry, have bad thoughts or have sinned the Spirit leaves me and then I am left alone. In a situation like this one is very vulnerable to any wind of doctrine of cunning logical explanation. The apostle Paul does a great job talking about this subject. Nevertheless, Ehrman makes many great points and I liked his book. Many people may assume that divorce was due to infidelity-that isn’t true. What happens if a spouse becomes very violent, neglects, or abandons a child because of mental illness and refuses to get medical attention or professional help? The other spouse has no choice but to divorce especially if the child is young. I think we need to as an LDS people rethink the stigma we put on divorced people. Divorce is like the scarlet letter A we label for adultery. I loved my wife, and I did not want to be a single parent, nor did I want to spend $26,000 or more on a divorce. Divorce sucks. Updated post: Salt Lake Tribune as of 11/14/2014 – “New change allows young moms, divorced members to teach Mormon seminary” Yes, I remember when my faith was just blossoming and I would love to go to a fireside, because the music would be so excellent and the speakers would be so stimulating. But yes I would say 60% of the time that sacrament meeting is very boring and I will do all I can to pay attention although, I know it is difficult because I have four children under the age of 10 and it is hard to pay attention while I am trying to get them to be reverent for the meeting. My favorite parts are the hymns. I find myself watching music and the spoken word on BYU TV each Sunday before Church because I know I will get spiritually fed by that short broadcast more so than sacrament meeting. I do try to feast upon the word during sacrament time, but it is very hard. I used to say that only reasons I go to church is to pay my tithing and to renew my covenants by partaking the sacrament. I have testimonies of those things, and will always do them even if I can’t handle being at church for three hours. I do love Sunday School–until I have to leave to take care of my autistic son because no one can handle him. Priesthood is fine too, I love the comraderie with men that hold similar values. I have to admit though because of my advanced academic degrees, I have to watch BYU TV discussions or talks on certain topics to keep myself informed and engrossed in the gospel. Thank goodness for BYU TV, and the Neal A. Maxwell Foundation for Religious Scholarship formerly known as F.A.R.M.S. At least, I am not a pain like I used to be when it comes to being an academic. I finally fell hard and realized that all my book learning was useless without the Savior and his Atonement. His ways are the ways we are supposed to travel and tapping into the power and influence of the Spirit is key to our sojourn on this life. Anyway, at least I know that having a testimony and learning the gospel is very personal, yet public at the same time, any chance to serve in any small degree does help expand my love and understanding for the gospel. Amen. I feel your pain in some ways. What makes or breaks a ward are the members positive attitudes toward changing things for the better. What my brother did when he moved into a new area was invite people over for dinner each Sunday, he would start off with the new people first and then work his way into the body of the membership. This was really wise, since he could know the people that were similar to him that were the newbies, then he would already have established rapport; he would already be beating the ward at what it should do. I sometimes did the same thing, I was proactive and invited people out to go Christmas caroling. I didn’t need permission from anyone in the Church; I went to home teaching families, other members, and non-member friends and hand my own group of about twenty. It’s all about just having fun and being proactive. Their are a lot of good things you can do outside of the Church that are in harmony of the Church doctrine. We have to understand that we are just a small part of a much larger culture that accepts fun activities like potlucks, picnics, flying kites, running, biking, etc. I think we expect the church to do stuff for us but forget that we are agents unto ourselves and the church provides networking options. Hope this helps. Yeah, that is unfortunate that the Mormon complex cripples many of us to believe that we are the chosen ones. When the fact is that according to the Book of Mormon if any person lives righteous he will be blessed on the land that the Lord has given them. Also the rain and the sunshine both fall upon the wicked and the righteous. We also need to remember that we are not the only ones that will be resurrected “For as in Adam all die in Christ shall ALL be made alive.” Remember “For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Additionally, In the end, according to the Apostle Paul, “EVERY knee will bend and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ.” These principles are what I like to term as the ALL principle. Additionally, Our prophet even if he is not accepted is the Prophet unto all the world. For example, the family proclamation TO THE WORLD, was written for every nation tongue and people; not just Latter-Day Saints. Yes it is true that we have a covenant responsibility or obligation, but that means we have a higher obligation to serve those who do not belong to the church. We are supposed to be exemplary examples of Christian virtue and serve at all times and be missionaries.
However, if we fall short we are worse than many sinners because we have sinned against the greater light. (Look at the Nephite Nation). This helps me realize that I have compassion on all men and women, that I am no greater; I have to be the one stooping down to wash everyone’s feet, just like the Savior. “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of them that publish good tidings that publisheth peace that bringeth good tidings of good and that saith unto Zion thy God reigneth.”
