[johnh]

Right on Shawn! :clap:

[johnh]

Roadrunner wrote:

hawkgrrrl wrote:

And does this also explain (partly) why budgets for YW are so much lower than for YM. I realize that it’s partly because scouts is expensive to run (camps, awards, licenses), but shouldn’t we be doing something of comparable value for our young women? No?

Writing a separate response here because when this happens it really gripes me. Activity Day Girls and Cub Scouts should have the same per capita budget. YM and YW should have the same per capita budget. I think it’s the responsibility of not only the bishopric, but also YW leaders and Primary leaders (led by women) to point out the inequities. Sometimes the bishopric is just clueless and simply copies the previous year’s budget and doesn’t compare YM to YW. In the case of my ward someone pointed out the inequality of the budgets and the bishop changed it the next budget cycle – and it was completely painless. Of course, this varies by ward and by bishop…

Not being sexist but as long as scouts are in the picture the boys need more money. Our 10 kid troop had to spend 200-300 a year on scout badges and books…that was over half the budget…

[johnh]

Don’t forget to take 2000 units vitamin d each day in the winter

[johnh]

If it is healthy it not healthy doesn’t change with time…corn was not good for cows, wheat boy great for us, etc

Other parts like hard liquor could have been based on the time.

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[johnh]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

God bless TiVO. By cutting out the prayers, hymns, sustainings, anyone with Primary Voice speaking, anyone who says “today I’d like to address my remarks to [insert group that doesn’t include me], and that tax guy droning on, I’ve got Gen Conf down to about 2.3 hrs! Boo-yah!

Amen to that. Wish I could get my wife to buy in. She gets real mad when I play freeze face choir jibe. When choir is singing freeze the screen when they do close ups..I try to find the folks making funny faces..freeze them and then make up funny things they could be saying….ok..sometimes I am intellectually a 10 year old

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[johnh]

There . Is no objectivity. Some people try to be objective but they still fail…but the ones who try you can work with. We all see through our own lenses

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[johnh]

I tend to lean on a mix of 3 and 4. Reading his biography written by his mother…and to be honest her family was an odd bunch. Not hard to see where Joseph came from after hearing her family’s background…as to that his father’s visions….well…it could be a mix

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[johnh]

Blue_bird…pay attention to hawkgrrrls stuff..she is our closet guru

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[johnh]

Thanks for sharing hawkgrrrl…I live your stuff. I’d you ever get to Oregon let me buy you lunch so we can chat cuz I love your brain.

I agree with most of the article. I work in high tech so we are very gender integrated. I am frequently shocked at some of the gender bias in church. I remember being called to a calling and saying that my wife had a calling that took her away in the evenings a bit so I couldn’t take the calling cuz I had to watch the kids. The guy actually said “just have your wife spend less time inn her calling”. I said ..sorry but no.

One thing the article missed its the psych of women playing a part in their own devaluation.

Rutgers did a study on the pay difference between men and women and find men are willing to refuse jobs as part of negotiating salary where women had a tendency to accept the first offer. This plays a big part in the gender past gap…especially since men tend to assume weakness and low ball women…unless they are salesmen then they high ball women, again knowing the woman is less likely to haggle

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[johnh]

Membership clerk is the calling I Aspire to. You get to skip Sunday school, walk around during sacrament, and you can get it done during church hours…and you don’t have to go to the early bishopric meetings

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[johnh]

I get to teach the eq lessons out of the manuals. I like last year’s better because he at least talked a lot about compassion and love of others…I really identified with that.

Snow is a bit rigid for me. Seems this is where checklist Mormonism may have started

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[johnh]

First: welcome. You are at a tough age under any circumstance, adding a faith crush doesn’t help. I hesitate to guide you very much as I do believe you should talk to your parents about your feelings. It would not be appropriate for me to power too much guidance out opinion here.

That being said, God is never angry wtih you. Shame and guilt are the adversaries tools, not Gods. You are born with the spirit of God as a part of you so he can never feel anything but live for you. To question is not evil. Just keep an open mind and seek Gods will in your life and trust what he tells you.

Hang in there and talk to your parents openly honestly and respectfully, pay and mediate and listen for peace and answers.

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[johnh]

coonic wrote:

One of the things she mentioned to me was the $5 billion mall that is owned by the church. I knew I couldn’t take her at her word, so I started trying to find answers. Right now, it seems the more answers I seek, the more questions arise.

Ah the great and spacious building! I personally don’t think there is an excuse….if this is Gods church, then all the money is Gods and I can not imagine a scenario where God would want a big mall filled with high end goods (Porsche and Rolex stores!) and pictures of beautiful people wearing clothes he supposedly doesn’t approve of (would show their garments).

Matt 6:24: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon

I find this especially irksome as they ask us to clean the chapels, temples, etc while getting out of the hospital business under the guise that the church needs to preserve its (Gods) money to assure it is used to forwards the 3 fold misson of the church is insulting, ridiculous, and deceitful. If the church has too much money hire Janitors (I loved our chapel janitor…I used to go talk to him all the time when I just needed someone to talk to as a teen).that helps people be self sufficient, mall…not so much.

coonic wrote:

I don’t know if this middle path will work for me. I can’t turned a blind eye to some of the church does. How can I keep paying tithing to a church that I feel is more of a Corporation than anything? How can I hold callings where I would have to teach about things that I find difficult to grasp? I have been taught the black and white way of thinking and I don’t know if I can turn from that.

Some say the middle way is for people who can’t commit. I think the middle way is truly the “narrow is the way” path.

Black and white is to give yourself over without thought. If the plan is about free agency then one should expect to walk the balance beam in life….

The middle way is not easy. Many just dump the church, drink and party and live with the consequences, some become closed minded in the church to avoid the hard questions….and live with the consequences.

The middle means you have to examine every footstep and talk to god and act on your personal revelation….this was the intent of Joseph Smith and was re–iterated by Brigham Young and recently by Elder Uchtdorf and Kristofferson. If you are to be like God one day (yet another topic of controversy) then you will need to know the truth…not just be able to look down the cafeteria menu and order from a checklist. My two bits there.

coonic wrote:

I know being in the church has brought to where I am today: I am healthy and have a Loving and Faithful husband, 3 beautiful children and all the other blessings I enjoy…. I don’t know if I can be the buffet Mormon where I can pick what works for me and what doesn’t. I guess that is my biggest feeling: I don’t know….

I have read similar words over and again …some as they were painfully written by my own hand as I first started this journey as well as from many others who have come since I stumbled onto these rocky shores on the island of misfit toys. Enjoy this place when you want to discuss survival in the church. For those times when you want to just spout off…there are facebook groups filled with folks who mostly have chosen to depart where you can find friends too…but they almost all are “out”

[johnh]

Cadence wrote:

Civilization was built on beer, it provided a dense calorie source while acting as a purification system for water. It may be true that the alcohol content was lower except for maybe Utah beer who’s is watered down. I do not think Joseph had any intention of banning beer. That is a modern concept. Other than tobacco the whole WofW is generally wrong. Wheat is not such a great grain for man with all the gluten. And what about fish. No mention of how this is a great source of protein.

With just a little research you will learn that this law was just pulled from the general notions of the day such as hot drinks. It was believed hot drinks were not good for you. We are lucky ingesting snake venom was not the fad of the day or we may have that as part of the commandment.

Joseph may have stumbled on a right thing or two, people where not all dumb back then, but There is no revelation here. Just another example of religion trying to trump science by divine decree. To hang on to this revelation in its entirety shows the lack of any modern day revelation.

Thanks Cadence! It does appear God could have used access to Wikipedia back then to help him realize that corn is not good for cattle and actually a lot of Tea is good body and belly…..I would love to see an anlysis of the whole thing and see it they really are Words of “Wisdom” or something else

[johnh]

I mentioned the eastern concept of oneness as I taught about the spirit and being close to god and the spirit of revelation. The whole room goes quiet when I suggest there may be something we can learn from eastern religions. We really have become closed minded and afraid of the other sources of wisdom and truth out there

[Author]

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