[johnh]

Ray, Shawn

I guess I will have to disagree. To me you sound very much like the fair folks on this. You still are parsing words to say ‘technically if you read it just this way while standing on your left foot then what they wrote is exactly correct!’

The bottom line is ..most Mormons believe they will be gods over a planet filled with their spirit children. That is what comes to mind in most cases when we hear ‘will you get your own planet?’. Be interesting to see if we asked random members the question…I wonder how many will say ‘no..I will not get a planet where only I will dwell’

I have discussed this with multiple, everyone goes to king fillet and the belief they will be gods over their own planet….I also believe this is easily found in talks gone by….including the sunday school manual Shawn posted.

[johnh]

Spencer W. Kimball wrote:

…We live in a culture which venerates the orgasm…and similar crazes…How low can humans plunge!…..

Wow…a bit graphic 😳

[johnh]

wayfarer wrote:

hawkgrrrl wrote:

Also I beg to differ about Pres. Kimball and Packer seeing sex as black and white. More like black and dark black.

That’s really, really funny…and very true!

Hawkgrrrl is always hilarious…and insightful…

[johnh]

Thanks Shawn. So the news room says we will and won’t get our own planets.

Wonder who writes the info there.

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[johnh]

Wuwei,

I completely agree and that’s why I find the “own planet” and “can we become like God” responses to be changes in doctrine. You can weigh it down in technicalities but what is posted on the website is different than what has been taught in most LDS circles for 150 years. Lesson4 of the Lorenzo snow manual even quotes “as man is god once was, as God is man may become”. OK…so technically you could start saying “this means we can become perfect “even as father in heaven is perfect”….but I guarantee you that I will get more arguments in gospel doctrine by saying that is all it means than I would getif I were to stand and give an entire talk about “What do we need to do to prepare to be Gods of our own spirit children on their own world” in any sacrament meeting in the US or Polynesian Islands (not sure about what has been the culture outside those areas).

The 3 things that sent me tumbling into faith crisis were the announcement about blacks and the priesthood just being an “oops” (so much for God not letting a prophet lead his people astray), The change in the “planet” doctrine (yeah…I know it is simplified to silliness stated like that), and then stumbling across the whole Book of Abraham controversy. I got all 3 of those inside of a month or so. I was actually looking for the statement that I cold drink my diet pepsi guilt free (wow…only 9 months ago and I look back and see this naïve little kid worried about the dumbest thing) and found the planet doctrine and planet doctrine as well. I am still trying to figure out what eternity means to me now….leaning a bit towards re-incarnation these days with a bit of LDS spin I think (since I have not studied Hinduism or Buddhism)

[johnh]

Ray..the planet one is a great way to shock members. It is a fundamental Mormon belief. It is not talked about much in conference these days…buy everyone knows it is how things will be.

I have brought it up twice in church…once in elders quorum and everyone gets quiet and some have actually replied “they have to say that because non members don’t understand”

We all KNOW that we will have our own earth and be god for that earth…that was the nature of the king follett speech…heck…battlestar galactica even knew it.

This is a big change and this, I think undermines what most lds people believe is going to happen when we become like god.

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[johnh]

I think most lags would be shocked a bit by the officials doctrine:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?

Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ’s teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

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[johnh]

Not sure what out ward is doing. But the haglers are still planning on the annual Saturday Easter feast followed by huge egg and candy hunt and water egg fight. Easter is awesome….I do wish bunnies still layed eggs though….wonder why they stopped?

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[johnh]

I would also remember…sometimes we are offended and obsessed by others’ sins to distract us from our own.

I am not saying this is the case with you but just to watch out for it.

I believe when we truly want to change that we naturally feel compassion not rage, judgement and anger for others.

I speak from my own experience. When I was dealing with this it helped me not judge a man with troubles like the guy in your ward. He was trying to work it out with the law via therapy..

I also made a statement for the record at the sentencing of the man who got 33 years in jail for raping my daughter and 6 other teenage girls….and because I knew weakness I still felt some compassion amongst the anger…and my words were more like pleas for him to find change rather than telling him I hope he burns in hell..I was quite surprised by that.

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[johnh]

Let’s not forget there was a revenge prayer in the temple for a number of decades where they pursued that the world would get its comeuppance for all the mean things it did to the saints.

That leaves a pretty strong seperational foundation from our forefathers.

After that..well throw in the whole “we are the chosen” add the normal human pride and desire to be better than others…pop it in the sacrament meeting for an hour and ten minutes then voila! A perfectly formed lds judgmental soufflette …all nice and puffed up…

To be fair we are not the only org with the recipe either..this is just the lds recipe

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[johnh]

I love this thought as it seems more real and compassionate. Also, let’s not forget that many times Nephi sounds like a self righteous little snot.

Mom3 your comments made me think of when my family moved towns 8 years ago. It meant school changes, etc. It was a lot tougher on the teens then the younger ones….also something to think about in the nephi story

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[johnh]

Interesting thing is that to many lds….especially women…a husband just having a desire to see pornography is addiction. Having looked at it more than once makes you a serious addict.

Many of us thought we were addicted because once or twice a month we would peek. That same group generally stated that the desire and frequency all went down or went mostly away once we found out we were normal and not Satan spawn. Shame is not productive. Use your own sense of the spirit and moral compass to guide you, listen to people you respect, measure internally, work on making changes you think are good…based on your desire to change…not because God hates you

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[johnh]

I think understand the feelings you describe Brown. I have felt the spirit (using the lds word). I have been sought out to give blessings because some say I seem to be able to see inside them. I don’t really understand it all.

My latest feelings are that Joseph found and revealed something profound. It was not apostles and prophets and the book of Mormon. What Joseph did was reveal to the west that people could interact with God. Eastern religions may have already has done off that …have to get wayfarer to speak on that…but it was not so common in the west.

Personally I think Joseph may have been overshadowed by men wanting to bring structure to that which was not meant to be structured….do away with the structure and what do you have? People getting in touch with the primal good of the universe in behalf of one another…and becoming partners with god. Men like to mess it all up with rules and structure and power….that which is familiar to them. Heck that’s what the new Christians did back in 300 ad..made things more exciting by bringing in some of their idolatry.

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[johnh]

One if the major things most here have in common is that we don’t accept the infallibility of the church or its leaders.

So in that vein I would say…be sorry for the poor person in the position to judge that case. The judge should have been a legal judge. If the bishop didn’t report the abuse he may be in violation of the law. The mom should report the abuse in my opinion. I believe the big 15 would agree with me.

As far a the porn addiction? Try to give yourself permission. From a moral perspective it is not something the bishop needs to know. Even conference talks don’t tell you that you need to talk to leaders about. They just say “get help”. I have had better luck eliminating the urges just talking it over on some of these forums than from church leaders. Men like boobs..it is that simple.I think you will find the urge diminish a lot once you rid yourself of the shame. That was my experience and many others have shared the same experience. It is also backed up by current psych theory. End the shame cycle then see if you have a problem.

Once you have a healthy perspective then you will see clearly. I found then my desire decreased further as I started being able to think about the girls involved and how bad some of their lives may be…doing it off compassion works better than off shame that God hates you.

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[johnh]

I was very excited when I read that puremormonism post a while ago. I asked for comments here and most said the polygamy stuff with Joseph is too well documented.

I am still not convinced. I think 132 “feels” like an inserted page in the book. The idea that polygamy was a brigham and the boys thing and the church has had to maintain the ruse ever since works for me. It actually seems to fit with the general character of the church in so many other areas as well. Seems like Brigham did some interesting stuff and the church has been doing damage control ever since.

I didn’t continue the discussion here as there wasn’t much interest. I did email the puremormonism guy to ask if he still feels the same since his article is a year old or so. He said he still thinks Joseph didn’t go for polygamy in fact even feels more strongly about it.

I feel better about the church being built on Josephs teachings and inspirations by guys who manipulated things a bit after he was gone. This fits what has happened in most other religions and makes sense to me of church history. Certainly sits better with me than the sneaky Joseph who walked the razors edge between lords servant and deeply flawed human willing to take free will from women.

[Author]

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