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hawkgrrrl wrote:
I think we need more personal reflection, more praying in groves and less (or no) reliance on so-called authoritative books.
perfectly said.
i want a tatoo that says this
just me wrote:
Quote:The agony of breaking through personal limitations is the agony of spiritual growth.
Great choice.
What is the story of our lives? Is there narrative or meaning to our pain? Even and especially our spiritual pain?
Such comfort when yes.
Love it.
a beautiful film. that opening scene with at the waterfall had my mouth gaping. and very moving. morricone also did the music for another film called Cinema Paradiso, italian film about a man rediscovering what it means to love and see the world with the openness and optimism of a child. the music injects you with such nostalgia, much like in the Mission.
great list I LOVE My Soul Hungered! Not kidding. got to be on repeat in the celestial kingdom.
And I dig that New Radical tune, too.
I saw the soderberg version, and, …. ok. It takes a mystic to really communicate mysticism, and soderberg has done some pretty rad stuff, but he’s no zen master. You’ve inspired me to bring the old russian version higher up on my netflix queue.
bridget_night wrote:I like that book too. I have his Ten Types of Twisted Thinking posted on my fridge.
I love it. I recommend the list for all fridges.
When our mind races it’s so hard to get a hold of ourselves. Burns puts into to words what we are doing when our mind runs wild, gives words to the ineffable.
Can be so helpful and liberating – when we catch ourselves saying something like “the church SHOULD do this or that,” we can avoid a world of of anger, frustration, and resentment by remembering that SHOULD statements can be twisted and of limited use. One of my mentors told one of his patients to “stop ‘should-ing’ all over yourself.’
I strongly believe that while positive thinking can be helpful, REALISTIC RETRAINING of the mind or liberating ourselves from our twisted and limited thinking, a la cognitive-behavioral therapy, is where it’s AT!
In short, training/reminding ourselves to think more correctly/realistically will likely have longer effect than merely thinking positively.
All good recommendations. The absolute gold standard book for ‘positive thinking,’ battling negative thinking, or thinking more realistically is David Burns’
The Feeling Good Handbook( Feeling Goodis wonderful, but the Feeling Good Handbookis of such practical use.). This is one I recommend to my patients who are willing (and able) to work with a book. Heber13 wrote:I also have some family members battling depression…and I think these lessons on positive thoughts apply to them and their battles as well. I heard recently that many studies have confirmed that about 80% of people suffering from depression show improvements when taking placebo pills. Just something I am interested in studying and learning more about. If there really is that much power in our minds that determine our happiness, why does it seem so hard for people to tap into that? Why is it so difficult and not more natural for us? How often to we misplace our sources of happiness (ie. church or God vs our own minds as the source of happiness)?
There IS power in positive thinking, but research is showing that it’s often more effective to replace negative thoughts with more reality based thoughts (and often the reality is more positive than we make it.)
Placebo power is real. Psychiatrists are often struggling to prove the efficacy of our meds/therapies for some conditions. Studies show that these DO work better than placebo, but often not as well as we’d like.
Happiness is hard, but some say it’s achievement actually IS natural for us. Carl Rogers said that we are ALL trending toward healing, growth, maturity, acceptance, etc. Good therapy, good books, meds, etc, help with the obstacles that get in our way.
Good luck. Let us know what ends helping you the most.
Heber13 wrote:I figure going to church is for my benefit, or I don’t need to go…I don’t do it for others…its about me and my journey to find peace and my relationship to God.
This is well said, reflects some of my thoughts.
mormonmom wrote:Aren’t we supposed to feel lighthearted when we go to church and walk away feeling peace?
YES! Well, eventually, anyway. The most beautiful part of this whole process for me was how it came full circle. At first, the church gave me great peace, comfort, direction. Then for a while, I struggled. Now, it gives me peace, comfort, direction – but for entirely different and deeper reasons. The road was long and hard, but very worthwhile. I’m excited to see where your journey takes you.
allquieton wrote:It’s a relief to find a community that, although they might disagree with the Church on certain matters, are still pro-LDS.
Yes. This is the key.
allquieton wrote:Valoel,
I can see why it might be better to leave the whole thing alone. And why to some people the matter is irrelevant. But to me it’s important just to know the truth. Also, if JS did not practice polygamy, it clears up a lot of other things, such as screwy teachings by BY.
I also find it reassuring that the Founder of the church at least was not corrupt. It gives more weight to the BoM.And it lets you know something about how God operates with regard to the Church. I’ve found this whole discussion fascinating. Tickles the nascent historian in me.
I don’t think the prophet’s potential corruption is such a great fulcrum, though. If he was not corrupt, then
great– seeing someone master the iron rod can sometimes inspire us to hold more tightly ourselves. But if he was corrupt, then the imperfect and struggling human in me can easier relate to him, he becomes less ‘fairy tale’ and more ‘fellow journeyman.’ I mean, we’re ALL flawed, even some of our favorite gospel icons (Peter, Moses, Solomon… why not JS?). The difficulty for me was first thinking JS was incorruptible then learning that maybe he wasn’t. That disillusionment can be hard. But if a prophet is corrupted, generally speaking, it need not diminish his mission, his intention, or his utility in the eyes of God.
And the BofM – I think that thing truly fell out of heaven, and the fact that the prophet may have been very much less than perfect (like me) makes the miracle more astonishing.
So, again, I love the discussion, and hope it keeps on going. But the conclusion doesn’t carry much weight for me. Either way, God’s in it.
Yeah, wow. Really nicely said. I like this: Heber13 wrote:
Stage 5, however, is about renewal, or conjunctive faith. You go back to the symbols and faith of Stage 3, but now are free to apply the meaning and the value in a way that is beneficial to you, without the narcissism that others either must see it that way (stage 3) or others are blinded to not see it like I do (stage 4)…and accept that everyone can see it how they see fit and of more value is how it all benefits us collectively, regardless of individual perspectives.Scott Peck put it nicely in an interview once. He basically said stage 3 was a kind of acceptance or conformity with the status quo and stage 4 a period of doubt. What I liked most when he said that we can’t really move out of stage 4 until we begin to “doubt our doubts.”
