Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I really…really…appreciate these responses… It really gets down to the heart of the matter…that I have a lot of things on my plate that I am focusing on right now…and while church does indeed fill me up a lot…and I am very interested in having a community and being a part of that community…I am concerned about being required to dedicate large chunks of time to it.
Perhaps many of you have dealt with this same issue…but other than my iron clad belief that there is indeed something spiritual in the world…I have no definite testimony of the truthfulness of the church as a whole…not the kind that would make me want to bend over backward to serve in some manner that I don’t feel strongly about.
I am however…evidently…quite susceptible to things. I noticed the other night when my young daughter was feeling really sick…part of me wanted to have that higher priesthood and to give her a fathers blessing.
But, I don’t really think the priesthood really matters like that. Not in that literal black and white sense. It is very interesting what we think and feel in the moment vs what we think and feel when we’re being more…objective?
So…as my faith crisis was occurring I was introduced to Mormonism. Mormonism was in many ways the most believable and compelling belief system I’ve yet encountered. Obviously it has major flaws that give compelling reasons for people to leave or question their truth claims…but it seems natural that since I had a strong spiritual experience I’d find myself back here at the LDS table so to speak…I need to figure out if I’m going to stay here or not.
I do feel indebted to the church a lot…for help temporally and spiritually…yet that is not a reason to ignore the part of me that thinks drinking coffee is really not a sin and that women have every right to pray and bless and fulfill priesthood duties as a man does.
Thank you all for your advice and perspectives. I attended church again today and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think this is the path I am going to walk for a little while. I’ve been being blessed by attending and learning and growing. My atheistic world view has shattered…only because a lady who says she is psychic gave me a word of knowledge that would have been impossible for her to know. This has proven to me in a subjective and anecdotal way that there truly is something spiritual going on in this world.
I am feeling good as I go…there were times in sacrament where perhaps someone says that outside of the path of happiness (salvation) that there is no way to have joy…I understand what they were saying…and I can understand why they said it…even though I may not agree 100%…perhaps I truly can walk a middle way? I’m finding that there just may be more here for me than I am even thinking is possible. I am going to try and keep my wits about me…I am prone to worship leaders…or at least to put them on a pedestal. I suppose my younger side has always done this…but as I get older I recognize that we are all human and make mistakes…and so too have leaders…
I also think I am particularly blessed because the bishop of my ward is just so wonderful and encouraging and understanding. I recognize that there is an element of bishop roulette involved.
What is also interesting here too…is I am full of love and admiration for those who choose to walk away from the church and for those who choose no church at all. Some of the most moral people I’ve ever met are atheists. It feels strange to be walking this path while admiring and respecting their views…but since I had something so supernatural happen to me…I just can’t walk away from that.
Perhaps I can stay here on this forum more and be a bit of a help. Especially as I grow and get more experience as a church member…since at the moment I am still so new. I wonder how much is just the honey moon phase of being happy and feeling blessed and feeling so good to belong to a great group of people. What is strange I have to say is that unlike when I was deep in the mire of my faith crisis where I was obsessed with absolute truth in such a black and white way…I am now a-lot more nuanced. I can’t quite tell if that is just experience helping me…the spirit helping me…or what. I would be fine with sustaining all church leaders…I do believe the church is true….and everything else….from a certain point of view.
First off, thank you everyone for your kindness and support, you help me feel less crazy and more normal. I suppose I must be one of those people who evidently deep down prefer to “feel” in my gut ‘truth’. The black and white thinking is strong in me but I am trying to change my thinking but it is painful at times.
I seem to have inherited this idea that if I don’t find the truth and stick with it I am some sort of failure. This has become distressing as any point of view it seems can be intelligently defended.
I am more of an agnostic in practice yet that is not the whole story of who I am. When I sit and talk with religious people I feel religious and often feel something deep within me being satisfied. This deep yearning is obviously important to me. I need to find a way to satisfy this without destroying my brain in the process by doing something completely unreasonable. The LDS church has some excellent arguments for itself that are very logically appealing to me.
I guess I like both sides as weird as it sounds…it’s almost as if my soul is divided into two halves…the orthodox and the unorthodox.
I don’t have any particular group pressing me to do this or that. I live in central Florida in an area that is predominately non-Mormon. I think most of my pressure comes from within myself.
It’s probably a mixture of things. Getting over the fact I am divorced and alone. I try to spend as much time as I can with my kids but I am forced into a situation where I need to find myself…whatever that is.
My father died a few weeks ago…it has been traumatic and has caused me to try and reconsider spiritual matters more closely. It often feels like trying to fall asleep…the harder I try the worse it gets…like trying to tightly keep sand in my hands meanwhile it seeps out slowly.
I have always tried to be a virtuous person even before I was a Mormon. So much of myself I see in this church. I also love the buildings and the hymns and the temples are so beautiful and help me connect to the divine.
Maybe I just need some more time to heal and recover. I really appreciate this community being so kind and welcoming.
I just want to be happy…and focusing on Christ helps me do that for a little while…until part of my brain kicks in that remembers what’s I have read that suggests that he may not have existed at all and then my world beings to spiral outward into uncertainty and doubt. From this comes a tired melancholy that seems to sweep over me. A tired reflection of uncertainty that seems to sap the vitality of the day and leaves me weary and needing to sit down.
I press onward hoping to find the truth but I often find only uncertainty. The sirens song of absolute truth and knowledge is seductive to me right now…it brings a burning inside my chest that has been dormant for years yet it still a vital part of my soul.
When that fire cools and deminishes though I am left in the smoldering embers feelings of doubt and fear about what is really true and what is not. But maybe it’s understandable that I feel this way being raised in such a black and white way of thinking. There was such comfort and security in that type of thinking…it seems seductive to me even after all these years.
I can fall into it for a little while with almost child like enthusiasm, but eventually I will calm down and I will think more clearly and I will wonder what I really believe.
I have been following John Dehlin off and on for a few years. While I haven’t listened to all of his podcasts, I must agree with Roy in that his overall demeanor seems to have changed quite a bit over time. Some of his earlier works seem to be a lot more faith promoting or just unorthodox but reasonable. Later he seemed to become more and more unorthodox to the point there was hardly anything orthodox at all…it seems that all there was left was just the “un” in unorthodox.
When he stated publicly that he didn’t attend ward meetings anymore…didn’t partake of the sacrament anymore…and started watching the Oprah Winfrey Network for spiritual food…I definitely felt that he was going rather sharply in a different direction.
One of the things that has been troubling lately…as a support of John Dehlin…I was quite taken back by a recent comment I read. I cannot remember it verbatim but to paraphrase, either John Dehlin is a righteous holy ghost led godly man, or he is the most seductive apostate the church has ever had.
I recognize that the statement may be a straw man and presenting a faulty argument…but nonetheless it has taken me by surprise. I never thought I would be led astray by an apostate…the thought never occurred to me…now I am sort of reevaluating John Dehlin and his place on my shelf and trying to figure out where he fits in.
Reading through this transcript I can’t help but feel that President King was being genuine and heartfelt. What more can you expect from a human being?
This is a toughie…but I suppose it is only tough if you think it is. Sometimes when people are set apart and given authority in a specific role it seems only natural that they would emphasize specific actions that they feel has benefited their own personal spiritual walk.
I remember one day on ‘Bishops’s Sunday in the third hour where EQ and RS met together that our Bishop gave a quick improptu talk about how he had genuinely felt the spirit more as he followed the Word of Wisdom. In his personal following of the WoW he found that he was spiritually convicted over taking Excedrin for headaches/migraines as Excedrin contains caffeine. He testified, and I do not doubt him, that he felt the spirit more as he refrained from caffeine.
Does this mean I cannot have caffeine? Obviously not…but for this man who is genuinely a good man it was an issue for him.
If only these types of talks and messages could be prefaced with the words “For me, etc etc” or “Your mileage may vary” etc etc.
Roy wrote:I am one that participates in several churches. I tell LDS folks that I participate in many churches but only attend the LDS church. I tell non-LDS folk that the LDS is our “home church” but we enjoy supplementing our spirituality. In some of these churches we have found delightfully well run children’s programs, fun events with good food, friendly welcoming patrons, and stirring worshipful music. We have come to know and develop friendships with many wonderful people that we wouldn’t have known otherwise. This seems to be working for me and my family but I understand that it might not work for others.
Thank You for sharing this…
I wonder if this is what I may end up doing for a little while…I am not certain.
I suppose it is part of the understood idea of looking for and enjoying light wherever we can find it…but also recognizing that in our culture its expected that the LDS church has more light than anyone else and, naturally, we should attend it exclusively to get the most and thus to go somewhere else for ‘light’ seems ineffective or foolish. Granted, I do not necessarily agree with that but that is the expectation isn’t it?
It seems so odd to try to balance multiple churches…but I think I might try it. Have your children enjoyed the balancing act? My former wife still attends her ward…I may go to my own ward nearby alone at first and incorporate the kids in later.
It’s a strange dance…I am wanting to be a good example for the kids and show some ‘stability’ of some sort…not sure how I am going to approach this yet.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I am still looking for my personal burning bush experience.
Consider that, maybe, “the Lord maketh no such thing known unto (you)” – that “to some is given to know” but that you might not be in that group. That’s okay, even if our culture for so long has made it seem not okay. I definitely see that changing at the top, but it will take some time for the water to get to the end of the row.
Quite right…
I remember the first time I read D and C 49 11-14
11 For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.
12 To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby.
13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.
14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.
That really impressed me as I feel that I am currently in the camp described in verse 14. Granted, I recognize that my faith is not very well…and I slide in an out of it…but the scripture itself does give me hope.
It is one of my favorite scriptures of all.
I almost feel some measure of guilt for attending the U.U. in a way. I suppose its a call back to the orthodox days. Attending another church feels like a betrayal, but I loved it anyway? Another part that compliments this is the fact that I have a step son who has become an atheist due to my observations. He has no interest in going to the LDS but gladly attends the U.U.
I am not sure what I will do just yet. Even in a small discussion with my stepson yesterday he asked me “why do you want to go the LDS church still? Your an atheist” , “Yes” I replied. “But I am a Mormon atheist. A Mormon Humanist.”
“How can you be both? Don’t they contradict?” “I don’t know, but that is what I feel I am, and I am not the only one” was all I could reply.
Perhaps when my divorce is over soon and I feel comfortable attending as a divorced man I will go to my local ward and see what happens.
Maybe I will end up going to both for awhile…I am not sure.
I am thankful for this community though…I feel welcomed and at home here even though I have only been here a short time.
If you pray, pray for me. I am still looking for my personal burning bush experience.
This quote has been a double edged sword for me… On the one hand it is very exciting because it has the potential of showing that I truly can be a part of this church no matter how tall or high my testimony is.
On the other hand if I ever do have contrary unorthodox views I must make sure they are not broadcasted too loudly.
The size of my unorthodox voice is directly proportional to the chance of being disciplined divided by factor X; Factor X being leadership roulette.
Thank you all. It sounds like it is a difficult thing. She is happy and enjoying going. My gut tells me that me going there would ruin a good thing. I think i will try and attend another ward. I just want to try church again… I too can relate to your comments. Wow, I am amazed at how many of them I relate to as well. As a man I would like to have a loving relationship with a woman who can understand what it is like to have been Mormon and to at least understand this part of me that was so (is so?) important to me. Yet, the people that would understand that for the most part are true believers something that I am not. I agree with you 100% when you talk about things that used to be so sacred and beautiful causing you to twitch and becoming painful not because they are not still beautiful but because they bring feelings of pain along with the beauty (A rose and its thorns comes to mind).
I echo many of your feelings…and I suspect your feelings are quite normal considering the circumstances.
Growing up I was taught to desire Truth over all things…My father and mother found truth through Jesus Christ…and I respect that very much. For whatever reason at this time whenever I hear of Jesus Christ, in any other way outside of a Univeralistic all will be saved regardless message, I begin to twitch and have a sudden desire to leave the room.
Being a christian and following Christ are the bedrocks of my heritage on both sides of my family. But, in my search for truth, I have found the thing that truly matters to me.
Authenticity…
All I really want from people is authenticity…to truly be myself and you truly be yourself…what more could you ask for? That in my heart is the concept of Zion…that if I really love you and you really love me and we relish in our openness together then the world will change. It is a difficult ideal…I am not sure if I am will ever reach it.
You are not alone…not at all…thank you for sharing…it’s nice to know I am not alone either.
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. In some ways i feel out of place even here but I think that may be incorrect.
Being a convert, I have no family in the church outside of my soon to be exwife and stepson (who doesn’t believe anymore).
I went to the temple in Orlando (I am from Tampa) and only stayed in the lobby as I didn’t have a recommend.
I felt so happy and at peace there…
I have such fears sometimes…I miss the spirituality of my youth and I miss how the LDS seemed to bring a fusion of spirituality and reason.
I am separated and bracing for divorce. I know that the divorce is the right thing. Do I have to be a sinner saved by grace? Do I have to proclaim myself worthless and without hope if I have no atonement? Do I have to lose myself only to be built up in the image of another’s desires?
Even though I have never received my endowment or been married for time and all eternity, I still wish I could have a temple marriage.
I went to a bar recently…there was so much craziness there! Just not my thing. An atheist who is a prude? An atheist with morals and a desire to be virtuous? Am I am atheist at all?
I go home and read The God Delusion or god is not Great, and then read the Book of Mormon another day and the Bible. I listen to conference talks and read fairmormon blogs and listen to podcasts.
I know I wasn’t born Mormon, but I love its people and I wanted…so badly for its culture to be my culture.
Now I am afraid of never fitting in. The soon to be divorced man who doesn’t even have the higher priesthood yet as I am only a priest.
I have two girls of my own along with one boy and girl step child.
I love them all so much!
I want to be a good example. I fear venturing into any church for fear of being wrong and giving my children wrong ideas.
Thank You for welcoming me here!
