[Journey3]

Thanks….I know it is quite obvious that I am in the hurt, sad, angry stage. For so long I put my questions on a shelf then one day it all came tumbling down around me. I am really mad at myself the most for not looking closer any sooner than this, so I could know some things and make an educated choice about being in the Church & I have no one to blame for that but myself. To be honest it was just easier not having these kinds of questions and because of the culture my questions have hurt some of the people I love and that makes me saddest of all.

No matter what my choice as far as the church goes I have many loved ones, friends and co-workers who are LDS and I do want to remain actively involved in a constructive way. I sort of feel like I am stuck in a washing machine being tossed about. Can you tell me what NOM is? It is referred to and I don’t know what it means….Thanks for your time

[Journey3]

Thanks, right now I guess I am just trying to deal with the all of the hurt and sadness that something I believed to be a certain way really isn’t the way I thought it was and to figure out if I can embrace what I have found it to be. I know I am not alone in feelings of sadness and anger, feeling like I was deceived, and I know that I am the one responsible for not knowing and looking at some things sooner. All the things I put on the shelf over the years and I feel like my shelf is broken and it all came tumbling down around me and sorting through it all is no easy or quick process.

[Journey3]

I guess the difference between what the site is offering and what I am looking for is….not value. I can find value in many things that does not make them true and I am looking for truth. Also as far a Joseph Smith being a fraud is that he was supposed to be a Prophet of God, also we know if any man claims to be a prophet of God and his claims do not come to pass that does make him a false Prophet, especially when his words are followed by “Thus saith the Lord”. It appears this site may not be the right place for me as I am not looking to be justified in staying a member of the LDS church . I am looking for truth and praying for the courage to act upon whatever it is the Lord would have me do, whether it be staying or leaving. Blessings to all of you on this same journey of seeking truth.

[Journey3]

Thank You, I really haven’t made my mind up about anyone else or what they think because for the most part we never discuss sensitive issues like this or have an agree to disagree or whatever works for you attitude….sometimes I wish there was a Forum for this at Church where people could just talk about things like this….this forum is nice and it certainly does help knowing that others question as well, but it seems impersonal at times when you are hurting and struggling and your computer is the only place to turn Do you ever sit at Church on Sunday and feel like you are the only one…questioning & struggling while those around you sit with their perfectly shining testimonies. I spent most of my church life not questioning and a personal crisis brought me to my questioning phase, can’t say it’s been pleasant but I know the Lord is taking care of me now as He always has and the He will continue to be the guide of this journey.

[Journey3]

Thank You and I do hear what you are saying. I guess for me it has come down to what is the Church saying by one true Church? What does it mean to the Church as a body, I would believe it to mean that they expect it’s members to be in agreement with the facts of the Doctrine and that is where I am stumped.

I hear all the individuality, I do and I also believe that on some things such as temple recommend questions for example, they are clear, black and white you either agree or disagree, yes or no and that is what is expected of us. For those in middle land many may not have Temple recommends and why not because they are not in agreement with the questions asked or particular doctrine they do not believe it is true.

I know I do not want to sit in church for the rest of my life only doing it for comfort or out of fear, I need it to mean more to me than…. that it has some truth and some good in it. I can’t stay because of the culture or because it is the easy thing to do.

If I make the statement “I know this Church is true” than I better believe it, all of it. Will the Church ask us to leave if we are in disagreement with some things no, but it is not about that for me….It’s about me being true to God and to myself. I think it is sad commentary if we spend our whole lives in fear of letting our Bishop, our family or our spouse know that we have questions, and some serious questions.

I also know that it is good to question and if I am in a place of questioning and I really do not have answers to some things that is fine, and we keep on searching. But what if I do have answers and have done lots of research and there are some things I will never be in agreement with? Am I truly doing the right thing by staying or am I just being afraid? I Also know I am the only one who can answer that question through prayer and careful consideration. Thank You again for your comments.

[Journey3]

How are you doing since joining the site? It is fun to be among female friends 🙂 I have been all the places you have been and still am. I am getting further and further away from the church and my husband is as well. We recently shared this with our Bishop and family and friends and it has been rough.

It is all worth it because I truly do have a desire to serve God and I will go and do whatever He wants for me, even if it does mean leaving the church, in the Bible I forget where, sorry, He wants to see if we will give up every thing for Him, it doesn’t mean we will have to but He wants to know if we would.

I have come to feel if I stay a member of the Church that in doing so I am a representative of it’s teachings, history and doctrines and I don’t feel good about that either, so for now I am being completely truthful with those who are in important in my life, and though there has been some sadness, the truth brings so much peace, and I feel like it is what God expects from me.

I would love to know where you are at with things and how you are feeling.

[Journey3]

Polygamy is one of those icky topics don’t you think, one that we all know was there…and one that we pray will never pertain to us…..I have had it explained like this; that every one that makes it to the Highest Degree of Glory will all be sealed to each other, well that does not make my eternal commitment to my Husband seem to special. I have heard it explained like this; well you can choose whether or not to participate, that is the one that makes my head spin the most & I have heard it explained like this, if you are going to enter in the presence of the Lord you must accept the law of the new and everlasting covenant or you will not be saved(meaning be in His presence).

I think there is great danger in agreeing that this principle existed here on earth and will be in the eternities and then also think that’s great because it does not pertain to me.

I guess the bottom line for me is I don’t believe that it was ever revelation for Joseph Smith to enter into this. He chose it and it has been a mess for the Church and the apologist ever since. For the longest time I believed that story you hear around church…you know the one about how the women were alone and needed a husband so they could buy land etc.

Then you do the research and find out the truth of it all…the women that were taken that already had husbands, or the teenage girls and how they had to be coerced into abiding in the law.

It’s all so very sad really, and we try to justify it away or pretend it will never pertain to us here or in the eternities. I guess we all choose what works for us…..seems to be common practice in the church. Truth is fact the facts are in D & C 132 on the Church’s stand on this and we choose to manipulate it time and time again, myself included but that is changing for me.

[Journey3]

In your question

Quote:

what does true mean to me?

The definition of truth is fact. To me on a personal level iI cannot support many of the facts about the LDS Church.

I did read the How to Stay article and was saddened by it. At this point in my life I have felt like I know to much to stay but I don’t want to leave. The only reason for not wanting to leave was not having the courage to tell friends, family and co-workers…and FEAR. I keep hearing how the church could not possibly ask us to leave even when we acknowledge all of our questions and I suppose that is true, but what about my choice to stay or go that is all I am concerned with not whether or not I am asked to leave for I refuse to live in fear.

There is a really clear bottom line here for me if I stay I am a Mormon, and in being a Mormon I am then a representative of the Church, taking upon myself it’s history, doctrines and teachings. The very saddest part to me is not hearing much about our relationship with the Lord but only with the Church, our Savior seems so lost in all of this while we struggle to do what is easiest, but maybe not what is best.

[Journey3]

Quote:

What if I allow the Church to claim that, and while on my personal journey, I honestly say that I do not know this to be true at this moment? But I believe in the Church, and want to align myself with it, while I continue to seek truth. Could I not still stay and be a part of the Church while I am striving in faith?

If you believe in the Church is that not the same as believing it is true? I am confused.

Quote:

I think the Church invites us to believe what they claim. I do not think they require it. There must be a personal spiritual witness of what the Church claims, but they acknowledge that does not automatically happen, or suddenly happen. It often happens over long periods of time…to me, that allows for variation in knowledge and faith while in process. That allows for a faithful, cafeteria-style approach, IMO. Would you agree?

I don’t believe at all the the Church invites us to believe what they claim, it is expected that you do especially if you want to be a member in good standing, have a temple recommend, etc. It has been explained as simply as this to me, pray to know if Joseph Smith was a Prophet, if you believe he was then EVERYTHING else is true and should not be left to our personal interpretation.

At this point I don’t believe he was for many different reasons, and while I do believe the church has some truth and some good in it that does not constitute me agreeing with it is the one True church on the face of the earth today. I absolutely believe this church has an ALL IN approach and because I do not have this it creates great confusion in my life. It has left me wondering…if my family were not LDS and my neighbors and my co-workers and my friends would I stop trying to manipulate the doctrine to my liking, would I get out of Middle Mormonism? In Hebrews the Lord himself warns of us being lukewarm. If we know the truth of the Doctrine and know exactly what the church is saying and we choose to ignore it anyway so we can keep our lives comfortable and never have to take a stand and be courageous how good is that?

[Journey3]

I think we should look at all the meanings of the word abide….I know it is really common to make certain scriptural terms terms fit the meaning we want them to have but what if just what if that is all we are doing? So we can tolerate certain principles of Mormonism.

This is the meaning that I found; We use the word abide in our everyday lives, yet don’t fully comprehend what we are saying. When someone says that he will abide by his word, he probably means that he will do what he has said that he would do. This is not the true meaning of the word abide. When we abide in something, we are loyal to it even unto death. When we abide, we remain in a certain place even when the rest of the world has left us behind. To abide means to continue doing whatever is being done even when it is hard and the urge to quit is almost too much. The word abide means to cling to something and have faith in it, even when it seems to have failed. Sometimes “abide” is used with some of the meanings that are in today’s English dictionary, but the above mentioned usages are also a large part of the way this word fits into our language. If the world truly understood the meaning of this awesome word, then I don’t think that people would use is so carelessly.

In conclusion, while it is often misunderstood, the word “abide” has a very rich and deep history and meaning. And understanding this word is essential to understanding many concepts found in the Bible. Also, it is a good word to understand if for no other reason than that it enhances a person’s vocabulary.

Why is it then that we continue to manipulate doctrine for our own benefit, and maybe just maybe there would not be so many personal interpretations of Mormon scripture if the Church would just come out and say it, say what is real and true doctrine and let us decide for ourselves if they ring true, instead of us all wondering around trying to make stuff up to fit into our lives and our hearts.

[Journey3]

I really think it is best to stick to the doctrine on this one….Section 132 spells this out and it is clear, we will be damned if we do not abide in the law of the new and everlasting covenant (plural marriage), D & C 132:6

This section is a tough read…….I believe it was something Joseph Smith created so he could have as many wives as he wanted and the thoughts of eternal plural marriage brings more heartache and pain to myself and so many other women I know, who believe they cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven without it and I will never believe that is true.

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