Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Old-Timer wrote:
Some things need to be repudiated, and some things just need to be dropped, imo. Discussing masturbation and oral sex just needs to be dropped – again, imo.
It would be nice if materials that reference them were excised, as well – but I’m not holding my breath on that one – although I think that’s more of an issue with masturbation than with oral sex, since I can’t remember seeing anything in writing about oral sex in any official Church publication since the time I was married 24 years ago.
The problem being that the church still believes that M is a terrible, terrible sin. So it won’t be dropped. In fact, it is being ramped up as an “issue.” My dad, who is a grandpa, was asked specifically about M in his last TR interview.
As to the OS discussion. The only time I have ever heard about that was from my FIL right before my wedding. He told us that he was asked that in a TR interview once and he threw the question right back at the bishop. Told us it was nobody’s business what a married couple did together. I’m grateful for him telling us that and I am grateful I have never heard anyone at church talk about it. EEK! I never read Miracle of Forgivness, so I may have been sheltered.
Butters wrote:So, really, is there anything legit about the temple and the ordinances there?
That is up to you. They are symbolic.
Quote:If everything is going to have to be sorted out there then why waste the time doing it here (wrong)? In the class they also talked about how the temple work for someone will probably be done multiple times based on someone adding a period to the middle initial or misspelling the name. It just seems that the constant push to get all this temple work done is a little redundant.
Some people find solace and meaning in the redundancy of the temple rituals. I do not believe it is for the dead people whose names are used…and I don’t think anyone here would really argue that. It is all about the living person going through the rituals. Names are recycled. There are billions of dead people whose names we will never know. So, even though we are told we are doing service for the dead it is really all about us.
I no longer find personal meaning in the temple so I choose not to go or hold a recommend. However, lots of people do find meaning there and I don’t think that it could rightly be called a waste of their time.
I do still find meaning and fulfillment in doing family history research. I love learning about my ancestors and other church hisorical figures. It makes me feel connected to my heritage.
I’m sorry, I don’t know much about you. Are you taking Temple Prep right now to prepare to go to the temple in the near future? I need to look at your past posts…
🙂 OK, I’ll go back to the OP since I’m late to the game. You guys went a little crazy after page 2! Just to warn ya’ll I
aman “extreme feminist.” 
The sealing of children was not really an original part of the whole sealing ordinance. It was assumed that mothers (and fathers) would have their children in the hereafter. Joseph started “sealing” people together before he died. He had used some terms that we now see as being promised only to temple ordinanced people as early as the 1830’s. So, there was an evelotion of the sealing concept as he went.
In the early days of sealing it was a marriage ordinance or an adoption ordinance. Children were not involved in sealings until the 1880’s. I believe it was WW who discontinued the adoption sealings (where members were sealed to Joseph or Brigham) and began the sealing of children to their parents. Before that they didn’t have the concept of BIC, at least that is what the records tell me.
Today we still have sexism and remnants of polygamy in our sealing ceremony. A man can be sealed to multiple women, even if they are all living, as long as permission is asked…although I have heard of this not working out so well sometimes (note, they are legally divorced from all but one wife). If a woman is widowed young she would have to petition to have her first sealing cancelled in order to have the next one performed. This is obviously a VERY difficult thing to ask of a woman and can be extremely offensive and emotional for the dead husbands family. Especially one who believes that these ordinances are necessary for the CK.
If she is sealed to the first husband then according to the old reasoning (I have not heard anything that contradicts this) all the children born to her second husband are sealed to the dead husband. This is where the “it’ll all be sorted out by God” answer comes in handy. When everyone is dead all the sealings can be done by proxy for all children to their biological father/mother unit.
This can be very devestating to the new husband and any children born into that union, as well. If they are not sealed together they are left wondering what is going to happen to them after they die. The husband who was always taught to get married in the temple would be left with the choice of picking a different bride or “settling” for a non-temple wedding.
Despite the “God will work it out” answer there are many members who DO worry about this stuff. I know from talking to some of my close friends.
Obviously it isn’t an exact science and there may well be variations and exceptions to what I have seen and read.
Well, I hate that the church makes such a HUGE deal out of it for the men…they don’t really make such a deal out of it for the women. You know, since women don’t have those kind of urges. 🙄 😆 Just yesterday when my VT’s were here we started talking about teaching our kids things to keep them safe from dangerous people. I mentioned how grateful I am that they teach things like “good touch, bad touch” in the schools here, etc. They both went off at how horrible the schools are for teaching that M is normal in health class (5th grade and literally about 2 sentences are spent on it). They said in horror that the kids are taught that it is natural, but they should talk to their parents about it. OH THE HORROR!!!!!
This is one of the topics that make me want to take my kids and run far, far away.
In my home I have told my 13 year old that he does not need to answer the bishop if he is asked about M or P. All he has to say is that yes he keeps the LoC. My DH has supposedly had a talk with him about it being normal. I make an effort to knock on his door before entering.
My 3 year old explores, as they all do, and I just leave him alone. No yelling at him or shaming him. I might tell him to have some alone time in his room or get dressed or something, though.
😆 I wonder if M would become an addiction for a child who felt truly loved and accepted and listened to. One who didn’t feel guilty and shamed for doing M, but that it was just a normal part of their life. I don’t really know what an M addiction would be like anyway??? When it interferes with your life. I mean, are there really people who don’t leave their house and do it all day long..every single day? I doubt it. The law of diminishing returns indicates that at some point it would stop being fun.
OK, not sure if I’m still on topic or not….
In what context was the comment made? I’m into Witchcraft, too. But I don’t think I have anything in common with her.
OK…after some googling I think she is….uneducated. Witchcraft has nothing to do with satan. Satan is a part of Christian mythology and has no place in Wicca or neo-Paganism. To say that a Wiccan altar is somehow satanic is bigoted.
Oh, and I think she is lying about there being “blood” on the “altar” that she had a picnic on. Wiccan’s do NOT believe in sacrificing animals (if that is where she was going with that).
Bruce in Montana wrote:I find the priesthood hundreds of times more important, and more relevant, than the Church. As far as women go, when one recieves their second annointing (yep…it’s still necessary), this is when women really do receive the priesthood. Until then, women have the higher calling as mothers. After the second annointing, women have a tremendous responsibility….it’s only right….us slob men barely can handle the priesthood by itself.
Bruce, I don’t want to dismiss. However, I do want to call sexism. Men are more than capable of “handling” the priesthood plus fatherhood, partnership and other wordly responsibilities. It is sexist to think otherwise. The men I know are not slobs and are not spritually inferior. I cringe to think of my beautiful boys being taught that God gave them the PH because they are basically worthless without it.
Women do not hold a HIGHER calling by becoming mothers. Motherhood is a wonderful, fantastical experience. But, guess what? Women are also capable of blessing, serving in the community, taking responsibility for a church, working outside the home in many various careers, etc, etc. To think otherwise is sexist. Besides, saying things like this is a kick in the gut to women with fertility issues. It objectifies women by reducing them to a uterus. I cringe when I remember my beautiful daughter with tears in her eyes upon discovering that she cannot hold the Mormon priesthood like her brother does.
As a woman, I have used the name of Jesus Christ. Like…”in the name of JC I bless you…” It felt most comfortable to me at the time. Just one thing to keep in mind, if it matters to you, is that sometimes your kid won’t be “on record” if you have the blessing not at church. Make sure the bishop and clerk know so the record can be made. Shouldn’t be a big deal.
Oh Tom. I ached over the same thing. I want to cry and scream at the same time. For me, it all became so wonderful when I realized–because of these stories—that the scriptures are not literal. A burden was lifted. HOWEVER, the pain continues when I take my children to church knowing they are taught a literal interpretation of the stories.
In my home I have talked about the Nephi/Laban story with my children and verbally told them that God would NEVER ask anyone to kill anyone else and that killing is WRONG all the time. I hope I can teach my children to have and use critical thinking.
I had to quit my Old Testament Institute class because it was getting too hard to hear the justifications from my friends and fellow members for racism, genocide and sexism. I did question things. I said I thought Noah practiced unrighteous dominion for cursing Canaan. I posed the idea that perhaps God didn’t smite the Isrealites with a fire but maybe they just attributed it to him in error. Hmmm, I got others on board with the ridiculousness of the black magic cursed potion that was given to women to see if they were adulterous or not. I also got others questioning a bit about the virgins being given as booty of war…..Yet, I could get no body to see that genocide was flat out wrong. “God’s ways are higher than our ways.” Not if he is a rampaging murderer!
It is damaging and I don’t know how to fight it. I question if there is a way. At this point it is a stumbling block to staying LDS.
So, no help from me. Just solidarity, brother.
Kalola, is this something you have talked about in real life with believing members or online somewhere with believing members? I do know that I am noticing a few sisters who have stopped wearing them (in addition to myself). However, I am not sure if they believe-or what level they believe anymore. Not sure about temple attendance either. I agree with Brian that it isn’t anything new. There have always been different levels of observing the garment instruction.
As far as getting a TR or getting it revoked, I agree with the pp’s.
New SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGS! We need some new songs like nothin’ other. It’s not even that we don’t have some really powerful songs in the Hymnal, it is just all so old. Plus it is all sung in a depressing manner. I know that varies slightly from ward to ward. If I were in charge there would be some Christian Worship songs added to the Hymnal.
And maybe a small band.
😈 Ooh. I’m glad I finally read this thread. Something in the OP really resonated with me. For me, I have a need to overcome my FEAR of breaking taboos. I feel that fear (in me) must be faced, challenged or overcome.
I was a very good Mormon. I really had little to no desire to break any of the unique rules. I was even more hardcore than most of my peers about movies, WoW and other things. So, I do find that I no longer have an ego that identifies with “never having done” whatever-or being such a great Mormon.
I do think long and hard before doing something I would not formerly do (like drink a tea). I have found that I am not interested in new vices, just facing my fear of certain things. I need to find a good rated R movie to watch…
Old-Timer wrote:
About Deseret Book, however . . . Hmmm . . . How do I say this? . . . I don’t mind inspirational books and some visual art – but much of what they sell . . . disturbs me greatly. Book of Mormon action figures?😯 🙄 😈 Um, yeah. I’ve got those. Gotta figure out a way to ditch ’em….
😳
