[kinglamoni]

DarkJedi wrote:

I don’t. I’m just really curious why?

I emailed the links to the the new church essays put out on LDS.or to my TBM family members. One of the essays talks about the translation of the book of Mormon. I told may family that who ever read the essays I would send them a special Christmas card this year. The picture is to be used as part of that special Christmas card.

Thanks for the help.

[kinglamoni]

You say you dont believe in Jesus. Thats kind of a blanketing comment. Are you sure there isnt something about Jesus you believe in? Instead of finding all the things you dont agree with you might try looking at the little and small things that you might still be able to hang on to.

So instead of telling your kid you dont believe in Santa Clause you can say, gee I really like the idea of a guy who is jolly, brings me gifts and likes cookies. 🙂

Just my 2 cents.

Just read your last post. sounds like you already said what i am trying to suggest. good luck! and best!

[kinglamoni]

I am very grateful for these two posts. I thought I could count on you DarkJedi for a response. I will deffinatly turn my talk toward the Savior. Daeruim, thank you for the link. The talk was good. I to think that science is also a great form of revelation. I hope others will still respond with ideas, scriptures and quotes. I have two weeks to prepare.

[kinglamoni]

If it wasn’t for the book of Mormon I wouldn’t know what the word adieu means. Glory Glory! The church is TRUE! 😆

[kinglamoni]

I have read your posts on this site. I think your going to do great.

[kinglamoni]

Just keep swimming,

I recognize the feelings you may be having. I say feel them. There is a whole spectrum of feelings I went threw when finding this stuff out. I eventually came full circle. I have tried not to let these issues of the church or people harden my heart.

Please do not stay or leave or do any thing in fear. Do not feel fear because of your temple covenants. Let me make an analogy. Lets say you went and bought a used car from a car dealership (or new car). The dealer gave you a lot of promises and assurances that the car was what he said it was. He said it was reliable, it was in excellent condition. After feeling good about it you signed a contract to pay for the car. Then after driving the car off the lot you discovered the car to be a lemon. The engine gave out or it just wouldn’t take you from point A to point B. Are you obligated to the contract you signed with the dealer? Please don’t feel obligated to keep sitting in a car that does not work for you. Now, if you choose to keep the car, I recommend an over haul on the engine. Witch I have done and continue to do.

[kinglamoni]

Here is another link of his that was going around. http://www.gregtrimble.com/science-behind-feeling-the-holy-ghost/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.gregtrimble.com/science-behind-feeling-the-holy-ghost/

Its really bad. His logic is horrible and his understanding of science is lacking. This is the kind of stuff TBM’s are turning to. Read a couple of the comments at the bottom.

[kinglamoni]

Today’s lesson went Great!

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I shared some of the quotes posted here and also the story of Galileo from wiki. I cut out from the lesson manual all the parts that talked about learning truth threw the Holy Ghost. I couldn’t teach that part with a clear conscience, knowing what I know and with my life experiences. It left about half the lesson to read.

I then let the people in the class share what they wanted. One person said, “not all that is in the scriptures is correct.” I asked him to elaborate on his point and he did. He said that some people take things to literally and the scriptures can be read on multiple levels. Another person then chimed in. “Who here even thinks Noah got two of every animal on the arc?” No one raised their hand. One person said we need to approach learning with a spirit of humility. We talked about all the wonderful places we can turn to, to learn truth. It was agreed that true science and true religion should not contradict. Some one mentioned the Muslim prophet Mohamed and the truth he shared. It sounded like an article from Dialog.

What I liked most was that people where thinking with their minds. I think it was liberating for some. There was about 15 people in the class and just about every one had something to contribute. Half the people in the class came up to me afterward and said it was a great lesson. It was a very faith promoting experience for me. It gave me hope that this is the right place for me. Every one seemed to come to a consensus rather than me the teacher or the lesson manual telling every one what to believe.

Thank you again every one.

How did your lesson go on Sunday?

[kinglamoni]

On Own Now wrote:

Kolob, even in the BofA is nothing more than a symbol of Christ and the stars symbolic of the Noble and Great Ones.

Its talking both about stars and spirits. Threw out the scriptures you will find dual symbolism in many stories.

It does put the hymn in a new context. If I could hie to Jesus in the twinkling of an eye.

[kinglamoni]

I feel for you. I don’t know what to say because I have not been threw what your going threw but I have come and looked at your post a couple of times because I can imagine it has not been easy. My heart goes out to you.

[kinglamoni]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

The bits about astronomy sound like complete bunk to me, but again, bunk with a pseudo-religious / possibly ancient fictionalized bent.

What you don’t think God sits on a throne nearest to the planet Kolob? I guess that would kind of make him an alien from another planet. :sick: That’s the best emotion icon that looked like a little green alien to me.

[kinglamoni]

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. You all help soften my heart.

[kinglamoni]

I like your name. Keepswimmin. That’s the advise I would give and it sounds like your doing it. What ever direction you go just keepswimmin.

I don’t wear a wedding ring. I am married. I don’t feel i need an outward cymbal to remind me I am married. Or for what ever reason a person wears one. Umm. dont know why I shared that. Dont know if its applicable to wearing garments. 🙂

Just keepswimmin!

[kinglamoni]

Thanks Ray,

I believe Joseph Smith believed he was receiving revelation. I think he believed he had the first vision and thought he was a prophet. I actually think Joseph Smith was a decent person. Just because a person is delusional does not make them a bad person. Nor is it a knock on their intelligence and creativity. I am not one to say he was not inspired. I hope I am not coming across to hard here in my posts.

I’m giving it my best effort to look at the evidence from all angles and interpretations. The problem is that the conclusion I am coming to is the simplest and most probable. It is not the conclusion of what the church nor FAIR is stating. I am trying to get there really I am but its like some one is telling me the sky is green. When I look at it for my self I see it as blue. I am trying to see it as green to the very best of my ability.

I should mention that I don’t intend the word Delusional as a derogatory term. Any more than saying a person with cancer is derogatory.

[kinglamoni]

shoshin wrote:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Abraham

In case this isn’t the FAIR page you saw. Tons of info there

I looked threw the link.

I am not the smartest person but I believe if God has something to reveal he will make it accessible to both the smartest and the not so smartest. I feel that FAIR throws so much information at the topic in an attempt that some of it will stick. To me its a simple a question. One that even a person with a low IQ can understand. Does the papyri say what it is said to say? Doesn’t get much more simple than that. And if it doesn’t then why?

I can understand how the devil might be to blame for creating situations that bring doubt. But why would God reveal revelation in such a manor to create doubt at the onset? Why doesn’t the papyri facsimiles say what Joseph Said they did? I don’t understand.

Again, I am not a Neurosurgeon and I would expect some one to explain it in a way I can truly grasp with out it becoming a quagmire of confusion. FAIR sounds confused and grasping at straws. They will put forth any idea possible except the one staring blatantly in front of us. What is also alarming is just the amount of explanations they feel they need to make to counter the question. There is not just a couple issues they have to patch up but a lot of them.

In short. FAIR hasn’t been able to help but compound the effect of the evidence at hand.

[Author]

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