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cwald wrote:
Perhaps you should listen to your prophets and make some changes: And perhaps you need to let your local leaders know what their prophets have been saying on this matter as well.
Quote:“…there are so many “shoulds” and “should nots” that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.
“This was one of the Savior’s criticisms of the religious “experts” of His day, whom He chastised for attending to the hundreds of minor details of the law while neglecting the weightier matters.
“My dear brothers and sisters, we would do well to slow down a little, proceed at the optimum speed for our circumstances, focus on the significant, lift up our eyes, and truly see the things that matter most. Let us be mindful of the foundational precepts our Heavenly Father has given to His children that will establish the basis of a rich and fruitful mortal life with promises of eternal happiness.“May I suggest that you reduce the rush and take a little extra time to get to know yourself better. Walk in nature, watch a sunrise, enjoy God’s creations, ponder the truths of the restored gospel, and find out what they mean for you personally.”
– Pres. Uchtdorf That is a good reply to a post I felt I may have worded little strong. Thank you. Some of this definitely applies.
As I was driving to the desert with my son last week to do some off road riding for a few days we got to talking about church responsibilities. He turned 18 last April and is now being asked by everyone at every corner why he doesn’t go on his mission right away. He said to me “…why do people in the church think everybody should be the same?” It was a longer conversation than that and he knows there is no real pressure from the church for him to stop school before semester end but the point is I had the same question for a long time. We are not all the same when it comes to our goals, desires, what drives us, what satisfies us and how we should use our time. I accepted my current calling because the YM and Scouting organization in our ward was barely functioning so now I am in the 80% of the 80/20 rule. The cost to my personal goals (A.S. degree) and family time (giving up our traditional get-aways last spring, summer and fall) have left a scar that will not heal itself. If everything you do is at the expense of something else then there is too much to do in this organization for most to live up to. Since time commitment is one of my major issues with the church I wanted to express my views on making/missing meetings. About Sunday School, for some it may be insignificant but for others, myself for sure, it is invaluable. This is because I was inactive from the age of 14 thru 35 and I not only have a lot to learn about the Gospel and scriptures but about how individuals in the church, men and women together, think as well. Sunday School is where I get that and where a path can be worn over the years for scripture and doctrine familiarity. I have not been able to attend Priesthood for a couple of years because I am YM counselor. Three hour block is tough but wouldn’t be so tough if it didn’t so often turn into six. Add to that, church is seldom the place where we can come to find peace of mind. It is bustling and busy with interviews, rushing to and preparing for meetings, checking out materials and CD players in the library, socializing in hallways mixed with 20 minutes each hour of Gospel instruction.
Doesn’t matter how you arrange time or prioritize meetings and family, if we need to double up or miss meetings to make another there is too much that is being asked. I was told by our (now) current bishop that once you get to the bishopric level or stake leadership level, not to mention GA, your family must make sacrifices that include your time. No way around it. I see many who have no problem with that and that’s fine. There are also many I hear now that I am in my current calling who quietly chastise others for not accepting callings making it necessary for others to fill in. Bottom line is there is too much demand on our time as active members, at least that’s how I feel personally.
Old Timer wrote:…Those who are able to navigate faith crises by seeing new and amazing things actually can experience joy and happiness in ways that others simply can’t – because those new and amazing things are invisible to the others.
Although I have not completed my journey, I purposely stay with pro LDS sites like this one to help me find positive and amazing experiences during my faith crises navigation. I am fairly new to this site but Mormonmatters pod-casts helped loads. Although they are overall too liberal for my core beliefs I found that it is OK to question and even to require validation for things that don’t sound right, and most importantly it was liberating to find out that the church, it’s leaders and some history is not perfect, as I was lead to believe growing up.
Old Timer wrote:
…I believe this has direct application to faith crises – and the more intense the crisis, the more difficult it can be to explain to those who have not experienced anything similar. Just like the thestrals that are so obvious to those who can see them, everything about a faith crisis can be “invisible” to those who have not experienced what causes a faith crisis…It is so hard to go through life daily with the feelings that a faith crises brings on while others simply can’t understand the almost tangible feeling of depression that goes along with it.
There is so much in this post that intrigues me but I need to try harder to focus on fewer things in order to resolve one at a time. Even though I have not experienced grief initiated by witnessing death, the consequences or results described seem to be what apply to my situation and feelings . I just can’t understand why after so many years, I cannot get through to anyone what my issues are (that’s not entirely true. My limited ability to articulate and speak my thoughts is hindering. I am a much better thinker than talker.) These confounding issues are trees blocking the forest for me.
Don’t mean to hi-jack, I’m sure there is another thread somewhere where continuing my post and evolving into a discussion would be more appropriate.
I think maybe our ward or even stake might be a little orthodox. My experience has not been the same. During GD class several months ago I was questioning the teacher (he’s a friend) during a miracles and faith discussion and I was “put in my place” by one of our leaders who was in class with an out of context quote from Brigham Young. I’ve heard a lot of other questionable stuff since and I started looking for community on internet sites and a couple weeks later the class teacher started out by stating that …”there are 40 thousand members out there on the internet griping about the church”. I have found myself of the defense on the rare occasion I mention I am on the internet asking questions. I usually end with something like fortunately there are places where people can go ask difficult questions. Could be all coincidence and I’m happy to hear about your good experiences. I’m going to probe a little to see if I can receive some of the same. Like everyone else said Ray, thank you for your explanation to the missionaries and for your time as a moderator here. I would stress also that they were only two out of thousands and they are trained to listen and agree with authority which I’m sure is how they see you. Sorry, that wasn’t meant to be contradictory or sarcastic. I don’t know how else to phrase it. I guess a small amount of positive feedback is better than nothing. I would love to be a fly on the wall if they discussed this site with a group of their peers. Or even more interesting a discussion in Elders or HP quorum. I’ll think about that and try to fit it in. It’s very hard to fit years of growing and disappointments into on thread. Here’s a few more thoughts…I had been emotionally abused and controlled until mid life and it taught me to recognize when people work to manipulate me with emotions and guilt. I developed some very tough defense mechanisms for a time but I think I let those down because that’s how the church works. I am now in a situation where I can be controled again and be taken advantage of under the guise of “…we prayed and your name kept coming up…”. I just don’t buy that any more. Have I just not given my life to Christ or is it – as I understand – that the Church wants my life? The last four weeks of fulfilling my callings as 2nd counselor in YM Presidency and Assistant Scoutmaster have been particularly difficult and time consuming compounded by my 3 hr/day RT commute for work. As I should, I approach each campout, each outing, each planning meeting, each leadership meeting, each lesson preparation etc. cheerfully and with the YM/YW & Scouts growth and enjoyment in mind. There is nothing I regret about guiding and influencing young people to stay on the right path. But I heard something about changes coming and found myself feeling internally overwhelmed with anticipation and joy that this could be over. Didn’t expect that but I am also overwhelmed with a feeling that when/if changes are made and I am relieved I will go into hiding for the remainder of my church membership. Some might rightly be thinking selfish (re. Elder Oaks “Unselfish Service”). I could list my sacrifices but it would look like a lot of whining. I don’t know if this is what Father in Heaven intended for me. Old-Timer wrote:kipper, thanks for sharing your experience ordaining your son.
It’s easy to focus on the difficult things and, sometimes, lose sight of the sweetness of Mormon life.
:thumbup: Golf is a frustrating game, hard to understand but every once in awhile I hit a ball that feels so good it keeps me coming back for more of the experience.During stake conference yesterday the first counselor to the stake pres while talking about some of the misconceptions people have about the church said that no professor, anthropologist, archeologist, religious leader (etc…) has ever been able to successfully contradict, question or disprove any aspects of the BofM… I wanted to raise my hand and ask about the Facsimiles or the Laminate descendents of Israel. Aren’t there a few things about the BoM that cannot be supported? I can live with that knowledge better than I can live with the denial. I was able to confirm and ordain my son as an elder yesterday after stake conference. It was a sweet spiritual experience. I feel I am getting off track and standing on a slippery slope. Question is how to stop the slide. During one of the talks I heard myself let out a snicker at one of the comments. My wife heard it too (insert wedge a little farther) but said nothing. Why don’t I get it or feel it anymore? SilentDawning wrote:Uh-huh — its partly personality for many of us. Our personalities interact with our life experience and produce crises. I used to feel somehow unfit for the Kingdom of God when I made that realization, and therefore, down on my myself….but we are who we are. I was born creative, thinking outside the box, and often, frustrated in our mechanistic, scripted, consistent organization. I have tried to change my tendencies toward hurt and even negative thinking now and then, and it is a hard thing to change.
However, God made a lot of children; I like to have faith there is a place for us all eventually in whatever reward-state there is after this life…given our diversity and if we try to live Christlike lives — regardless of the challenges the church presents to our personalities.
So much to digest here, more than I am capable of or have time for. Even now I am taking time out of my work to post again. I am starting to see myself in some of the same ways as SD sees himself. I have always been a “thinker out of the box”, a logical thinker and pro-active personality. I need check and balance and verification. I want answers to things I don’t understand and I want acknowledgement when statements need cannot move on until I get them but it’s all static. Nothing gets answered and I endure the internal nagging drilling holes in my stomach to find out what is real and what is not. My hurt and negative thinking has overcome my hope and faith I think mostly because time goes on but things never change. My life as a member is an act of mental endurance and it affects my daily in negative ways.
I tried to take notes during conference this weekend but most of what I wrote down were things that stuck out and bothered me. I get very little out of conference any more. I mean, am I supposed to be so moved by all personal the miracles of the GA’s that I cry and go out to find my own? I guess I could if I accepted them all without wondering. I can’t get over it when I hear from 4 out of five speakers who warn us not to let “_______” (fill in the blank with “ambitions,” “goals,” “activities,” “hobbies” etc) be distractions to your activity in the church. The message I get is that we should be spending 90% of our time reading, preaching, being missionaries, doing genealogy, attending to the sick and poor, doing temple work, magnifying our callings and basically being at church every day. Life on earth has much to offer and my life has changed so much that I don’t recognize myself. Be soft, pale, slightly overweight and I’ll fit in. Evidence that I don’t take time to go to the gym (last conference that was actually mentioned as a distraction) or participate in any activity that would take commitment outside the church.
SilentDawning wrote:
…If I was you, I would embark on an retirement attitude “unfreezing” program aimed at your wife. Also, sit down and talk about what life is like for people who have not planned for retirement.You are “unfreezing” her attitudes toward retirement….I would focus on that.
Regarding the comment from the EQ person — ignore it. He knows nothing about yoru situation (likely). I had a similar set of responses from people when I kept dating girls and breaking up with them as a YSA because they were not suitable. The comments bothered me, but I told myself “Are THEY going to have to live with these women someday? If the marriage doesnt’ work out, will THEY pick up the alimony or child support payments? The emotional hardship and dislocation? NO”. Same with the people at Church. They know little about your situation and therefore are wholly unqualified to comment on your situation. Ignore them as best you can.
All of this advice is right on, unfortunately we don’t discuss anything any longer. My wife has become way more spiritual than me therefore knows better in all things. We had a marriage counselor a few years ago who helped out with that. Yes, she was a member and recommended to us because of that. I am worn down and tired and just going thru the motions at home and at church.
SilentDawning wrote:…
Regarding the comment from the EQ person — ignore it. He knows nothing about yoru situation (likely). I had a similar set of responses from people when I kept dating girls and breaking up with them as a YSA because they were not suitable. The comments bothered me, but I told myself “Are THEY going to have to live with these women someday? If the marriage doesnt’ work out, will THEY pick up the alimony or child support payments? The emotional hardship and dislocation? NO”. Same with the people at Church. They know little about your situation and therefore are wholly unqualified to comment on your situation. Ignore them as best you can.
What’s up with people. It’s discouraging.
