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Roy wrote:Kipper wrote:
What this specific event brings up for me it the fact that I will need to be the one to ordain and confirm the priesthood on him very soon at a time when I am having difficulty with other things.
I understand that this is difficult. For me it is invaluable that my priesthood line of authority goes through my dad. I wish that it also included my G-pa but he was not a member. It does not matter that this priesthood may be just mental concepts. They are mental concepts that are imbued with empowerment and responsibility and are passed down from father to son and have meaning and importance all their own (independent for any “power of God” attribution).
Maybe this isn’t important to you but that doesn’t preclude it being important to your son (either now or in the future). I would not let this opportunity go by… you can always soul search about what this moment means to you later…but it only happens once.
Very good points, I understand. Actually this is important to me and I don’t plan to let the opportunity go by. Thanks.
afterall wrote:Hi Kipper! What jumped out at me is that you have a son close to a mission. This is something not talked about much at church, but the closer a son gets to a mission can be a time of emotional stress for the parents. I know many parents who begin to feel resentful inside at the sacrifice of not seeing their son for 2 years. And other emotions are there too, such as worry and anxiety regarding your child’s wellbeing. I am not sure if this is having any affect on your emotions, but it might be worth introspection.
This one is hard to reply to. Our son is our only child. I don’t want to down play the concerns I have for him being gone for two years but he is dedicated to the mission and I will help him prepare best I can and be happy for him. I will miss him like any other parent would. What this specific event brings up for me it the fact that I will need to be the one to ordain and confirm the priesthood on him very soon at a time when I am having difficulty with other things. Not to mention I will be standing outside when he enters the temple for the first time.
afterall wrote:Kipper, I think it’s okay to go to leadership and say that you are too burdened at this point. I think there needs to be a little more emphasis on balance on the local level. I do feel they want us to practice balance from the top, but at the local level, some leaders are so gung ho and are a different point in their lives, they can be guilty of forgetting that everyone has different situations and needs. I think it has become mandatory for each of us to take care of ourselves first, in order to be able to give to others. People burning out, some having emotional breakdowns, etc. are not good for us collectively. I have no trouble with saying no when things need balancing in my own life. Emotional health is just as important as physical health too.
Thanks for that. I don’t let myself get physically burned out anymore but the emotional part is pretty damaging because I let things get shoved aside that are important to me. My choices are made to avoid guilt but that in turn creates other emotions. Whatever I do now days is at the expense of something else. I may be seeing a little light about not only what I need to do but that it’s OK to to do it. Thanks for all the advice – even those I don’t reply to. I appreciate it.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:Sounds a lot like part of my situation. Although to be honest it wasn’t just church, work, family and church all required me to have 28-30 hour days. That wasn’t going to happen so I just burned the wick at both ends for as long as I could to make up for that fact. Now at 38 I have been “broken” for about 4 years now with no sign of recovery in site. My body has completely collapsed 4 years ago and it appears nothing I can do to get it back at the past 4 years. I am working my life at 25% of my previous capacity as my new max my body will allow. I can not be 100% sure of your situation but I can say in my own hindsight don’t run yourself ragged. The pay off to others was great and I personally have no regrets there but to me personally I got almost nothing in return except for satisfaction of helping others( a huge plus). But in return I gave up collage, no lived personal life yet, and apparently a broken body which I was sure would last at least another 20 years but apparently not. I hope you find balance as I am trying to work out now. I have found that life really isn’t rewarding without a balance no matter what I was or am told. Be happy with your best no matter what others say or think. Part if being you is enjoying and perfecting your “gifts”. Don’t we teach this?! We actively teach that god expects us to use and perfect our talents but then teach not to do it if it interfers with church priorities. A paradox. Having learned my lesson the hard way, I would sudjest to you that I hope you don’t. I have done or try to do all the things you have said as well as a Promarshal for AMA,wera, NASCAR and Indy car as well as the Ferrari club. I found a deep furfillment in serving others with talents I had been given, but found my spirit dwindling when I just did everything on the “to-do list” of church and others. There has to be a balance, a time for self. One doesn’t perfect his gifts given by god by going through a check list of priorities. I feel there is furfillment in doing both gods “direct work” church callings etc. and indirect work, helping others by helping myself grew first then given what streangh god gave me to others. But before we can help others first we must grow and hone our talents. A process that takes “time”. Therefore we need that time in a balance to grow. We each have unquie gifts god gave us, no matter what they ate let us not waste them by tossing them aside and saying there is no time for them. Surely while in a balanced state god did not mean for us to forgo the talents of our minds and body he gave us in pursuit of a check list?! I think he doesn’t give us talents that we may waste them anymore no matter how good the reason seems why wasting them seems appropriate. I know much of what I know, especially in electronics because people took the time to hone thier talents god gave them and teach them to me and others. Which would have never happened if they were to busy following a check list that through thier lives out of balance. I’m grateful for w hat I was taught, which openly happens when a person takes the time to learn to hone thier god given talents. I find myself depressed when I waste my god given talents even by doing a approved church,work family checklist which leaves little or no time for them. The reason doesn’t matter. I think you might or probably feel unsatisfied or depressed when not devolving your talents despite the reason as well. I hope you find your goals and balance.
In fact I do feel very depressed when not developing my talents, chasing goals and accomplishments. I do believe I have some special gifts that have been in the attic for most of my life. They’re still there and I’m trying to make up for lost time but the more active I get in the church the more service and activity is required of me. I want so bad to be invisible. Another week coming up and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings after work are tied up with requested church obligations. Fulfilling these obligations while gratifying stagnates the rest of my life. Very depressing. How can Mormons live balanced lives?
Old-Timer wrote:It does seem to work out for some people – but I’ve paid a full tithe all my life and been unemployed and on church assistance more than once. I don’t begrudge those whose experiences lead them to believe it will work out; I just don’t agree with it as worded.
Fwiw, I think you need to separate tithing from the overall situation you described. The root of it appears to be money management by your wife, based on her priorities – and, frankly, I’m not touching that one with a ten-foot pole.
😆 🙂 I don’t blame ya, that’s not what were here for. Feel free to correct me where needed though.
SilentDawning wrote:Quote:In my house my wife takes care of the finances (one of the things I gave into to keep the peace but that’s another issue altogether) and for several years I asked, encouraged and suggested that we pay a few extra mortgage payments a year but we “could never afford it”. However, during my spiritual progress I suggested we start paying tithing and all the sudden we were paying as much to the church as we pay in mortgage…every month. We will never pay this house off before I die. Am I complaining about something that should be on a different board altogether? I can delete this if necessary.
Are you saying that you had the money all along to make a few mortgage payments? And that it was found when you started paying tithing (meaning you had it all along), so now you are frustrated? That is what I am hearing. You can also construe your statement to mean that after you started paying tithing, you suddenly found your limited dollar stretched….giving a bit of supernaturality to the tithing concept. Can you clarify what you mean?
Thanks for asking for clarity SD. It means you’re looking closely and wondering how to respond. I don’t believe for a minute that we are able to stretch our dollar magically because we started paying tithing. I knew from the start that it was going to be a burden and was prepared to sacrifice for doing the right thing but this has turned into two separate points of dissatisfaction for me. The first point which I not so clearly touched on above is that I had advocated for years making extra payments to pay off our mortgage before retirement so I wouldn’t have to keep working but was met with resistance from my wife (because we didn’t have the extra funds) until finally I gave up. Suddenly however we are able to come up with what would be equal to ten mortgage payments a year to be full tithe payers. This upsets me to no end and it’s not that I regret my decision to be a tithe payer but I just think of all those years we could have been paying down the mortgage. I’ll be well into my 80’s with a house payment.
The second thing is that this is not without major burdens. Right away we cancelled our family vacation the first year and we have gone away maybe two times together since. Priority and sacrifice, right? Any financial emergency related to home, auto or whatever is almost catastrophic and will at least take time to pay off. Forget socking away any savings.
I was able to find a need in a different department and work about 20 weekend days a year. That OT cash goes into a separate account to fund recreation mostly for my son and I. Half of those days are Sundays but if it weren’t for those weekends we would be absolutely without recreation. One of my peers in EQ who is now an HP asked me if I was trying to get rich by working Sunday’s. Comments like that don’t fade away for me.
Maybe griping and complaining here is going to help me see things from 10k altitude and maybe I’ll come to my senses, maybe someone will straighten me out, I don’t know. One of my main problems is I don’t believe in divine help. I just think phooey when someone gets up in sacrament and says “if you pay your tithing everything will work out, everything will be OK”. What would my bishop say if he knew my true feelings?
observant wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread but I just want to say thanks to those who still pay tithing. It provides me with employment. it is my hope that my work is at least somewhat important and relevant.
How does me paying tithing provide you with employment?
DevilsAdvocate wrote:Kipper wrote:DevilsAdvocate wrote:The Church can continue to insist that the absolute truth is something like 2+2=5 because divine intervention will supposedly make up the difference but what happens when members and investigators suspect these promises will never be fulfilled? The naive attitude most Church leaders have about tithing reminds me of the Martin handcart disaster when members unwisely left for Utah way too late in the year and ended up getting caught in terrible winter weather in Wyoming apparently because of unfounded faith, hope, and assurances that everything would work out alright. Trying harder will not necessarily help much if there are fundamental flaws in the basic plan you are attempting to carry out.
Thanks for putting that into language and POV I can understand.
No problem; that’s what I’m here for. I’m glad you bumped this thread up from obscurity. I had forgotten about it but looking back it is still one of my favorites. What bothers me the most about tithing is that I think it just doesn’t add up in the worst cases so Church leaders are basically counting on divine intervention to make it work and then they will ignore or make excuses for any cases where it doesn’t work out very well.
In my house my wife takes care of the finances (one of the things I gave into to keep the peace but that’s another issue altogether) and for several years I asked, encouraged and suggested that we pay a few extra mortgage payments a year but we “could never afford it”. However, during my spiritual progress I suggested we start paying tithing and all the sudden we were paying as much to the church as we pay in mortgage…every month. We will never pay this house off before I die. Am I complaining about something that should be on a different board altogether? I can delete this if necessary.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:SilentDawning wrote:The Church can continue to insist that the absolute truth is something like 2+2=5 because divine intervention will supposedly make up the difference but what happens when members and investigators suspect these promises will never be fulfilled? The naive attitude most Church leaders have about tithing reminds me of the Martin handcart disaster when members unwisely left for Utah way too late in the year and ended up getting caught in terrible winter weather in Wyoming apparently because of unfounded faith, hope, and assurances that everything would work out alright. Trying harder will not necessarily help much if there are fundamental flaws in the basic plan you are attempting to carry out.
Thanks for putting that into language and POV I can understand.
Old-Timer wrote:Get your pilot’s license. if that means asking to be released, ask to be released. If you aren’t released, just stop doing it as much so you can get your pilot’s license.
If they want YOU, you need to make sure they get YOU – and part of “you” right now is getting your pilot’s license. If they can’t accept that, they don’t want YOU in that calling; rather, they just want someone.
if you’ve read much here, you will know that I am on the more conservative side of the spectrum here at this site – but when I accept a calling, I am clear that if they want me, they get ME.
That’s a good perspective I should have had in January. I can carry that forward but now I need to figure out how to reset.
So here it is straight up. I have always been afraid to be assigned callings that take away my time to pursue ambitions and this time it happened in the worse possible way. First of all I am not your standard follow the pack type and I need to constantly feel like I am trying to accomplish something. That is what gives me purpose in life. I search after excitement that life offers. I love the outdoors, I need to work physically hard. I surfed from the time I was a kid until recently, I earned a black belt many years ago, I learned how to box, I still race motorcycles, I snow skied for many years, I play the piano and guitar, I work on cars, do woodwork, build web sites, camp, fish, ride mountain bikes and go to the gym regular. I know what your thinking, I’ve heard GA’s mention at least half of those things specifically in talks as being “distractions”. OK, so I can swallow that to a point because I had to learn and accept that you can’t put anything above or ahead of your desire to be like Christ. So I stopped spending time on almost all of those things so I could be where I should be on Sunday’s, during family night and especially spend time with my son while he is still at home. I don’t get the same rewards from church culture that others do, I get that but it seems like we are all supposed to be the same. It’s just not possible. But the one thing that is breaking me right now in the worst possible way, the one thing in my life that I set as a goal before I was even 5 years old was to become a pilot. You barely know enough about my childhood to understand why that didn’t happen until later. So I did learn to fly but to finish up that pursuit I need a commercial license. I started training for that in January then received two callings that made it impossible for me to continue. Last week I spent four of five evenings doing church duties. This week will be the same and it isn’t uncommon to spend more time during the week doing church duties. how do you all do it? Why? I was enrolled in a class, had an instructor lined up for flight training and a plane to use for half the cost of a rental. Should have been taking exams around November but all of that is out the door including the initial costs for class. Don’t even think of telling me I’ll have time to do it later. This is one of those opportunities that don’t get duplicated and more important I’m almost 58 and when I’m in my 60’s I need to be experienced, not learning how to fly commercially. You know that voice you supposedly hear when you ask for conformation? I heard it, subtle but very clear, “it’s time”. Was it a revelation? No, I guess it couldn’t have been. I just heard what I wanted to hear.
I’ve had a couple of evening walk and talks with one of my leaders but it wasn’t very productive. Now I am fulfilling my callings, I know I should and I want to but at the same time I have a building animosity toward the church. I am finding fault with everything. Ya know, I spend three to five hours at church on Sunday (just like everyone else) but receive about 45 min of lesson. The rest is rushing around with notebooks and iPads. I sit next to my wife in sacrament then she runs off to talk, plan and make copies. Have I gained more than I lost? Not in my mind. I just need to accept the sacrifice but how? I don’t see how.
Mike wrote:Welcome to the group Kipper. From your Intro, I would say that you will fit right in.
The first thing I would suggest, if you think you maybe depressed, have it checked out by a professional that you trust.
Many of the other issues may diminish.
Mike from Milton.
I have already been down that road, was medicated three years and yea it helped but I never got the answer to my question why don’t we treat the problem and not cover up the symptom. Also, I never felt like I was really myself.
Sorry, an introduction should come first. I was at work this morning, I usually work one Sunday a month, and it was slow and I was thinking intensely about stuff and decided to write only what I was feeling not about the issues I am having. I’ll head over to the introduction panel later and give some information about myself then look again for some answers. And yes, I have been lurking for awhile and even sent and received a reply via PM to Bishop Reel. I’m at a point where something has to change and I need to control it myself or it will not be happy for all around me.
