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The last tithing settlement I went to I brought up the point that my gross pay is way more than net and in fact I should pay on net not gross. The money taken from me is not mine and i should not have to pay tithing on someone else’s money. My “yearly increase” is what I can actually bank. Bishop had no reply but DW invoked the “robbing God ” comment and as the family patriarch she would not listen but made our decision right there. She goes by herself every year now. I’m pretty amazed at the ability to articulate many of you have. I get a lot from your comments. Many times I come here to post but run out of time during my lunch hour just reading. :geek: dande48 wrote:
Since when do we get what we deserve?
Not sure I understand this, meaning you deserve it?
California is blazing with wildfires, one is fairly close to home. After a post on my FB page I got this reply “I think the earth is being cleansed. Very sad. 😢 “This make me nuts. It’s why I can’t be a church socialite.
AmyJ wrote:Kipper wrote:
This used to really hurt to hear this kind of stuff but now it makes me furious. Why would it you ask? This cuts deep and very personal. Even though I worked most of my career as an engineer in aerospace I have always been held back because I never obtained a degree. In anything. It’s been embarrassing at times and a constant reminder of the misdirection and mistakes of my youth.Bottom line, several years ago I reached a point in my life where spiritual progress was really on a roll. Then I started taking night and weekend classes to earn my degree in commercial aviation. This was to be a game changer for my future and a personal reinvention. I was well on my way when I was called to a calling that was one of the more time consuming in the church. At first I turned it down knowing I wouldn’t be able get thru my three nights a week at the local JC after work but was asked again with the promise that it would all work out. Well it didn’t. I missed so much school that it just died on the vine. I lost the opportunity, I lost the money, I lost the time invested. Now I’m constantly reminded by local leaders and the brethren how important education is, how we should always be engaged in learning and reading good books. It all sounds so good and inspiring except they look see through to me. I hate coming home with these feelings and it really is more often than not. I wish I could just end the complicated relationship as I see it. It’s a constant battle to wind my way thru the sage brush and is just not worth it.
I mourn with you regarding the tough choices available to you at the time, and the loss of schooling/momentum.
AmyJ thank you for your acknowledgement. For everyone else, I didn’t mean to criticize a well conceived program and opportunity to many. It could have been beneficial to me as well if the timing were right. The timing was right for me several years ago and I had a lot of time and resources invested but the church had other things that I was supposed to do and leveraged their request with their own revelation and reasoning and pulled the rug out from under me. Now I get a pep talk about how I should be continuing my education and here is a program to help you and learning is a commandment. Well it’s literally too late now. I can’t live my life being directed by an institution, or I should say I shouldn’t have let my life been directed that way. I can’t even finish this, it is ridiculously aggravating.
Heber13, There are some thoughts from you that really mean something. I relaxes me to know I need to think about these things and how to make myself fit where needed. This reminds me that you have provided replies in the past that I need to look at again. This time I did express myself a little more honestly than other times. nibbler wrote:
Roy wrote:
One strategy is to pretend that you are an Anthropologist studying the ritualistic patterns of a strange sub-culture.
That one never worked for me. I was already far too familiar with the tribe, in fact that was perhaps the hardest thing to deal with, I had reached a place where the tribe was too predictable. I like to be surprised. To each their own.
Kipper wrote:
Stake pres councillor during GD “…if I ask you to speak in sacrament your answer is to the Lord. He is asking not me. You can say yes or no to him of you want. Same with callings…”
😆 😆 Get up, give an unorthodox talk, if the SPC gives you any flack for the content of the talk, “God asked me to give a talk. God knew what I’d say. God was talking, not me. That was the message god wanted you to hear.”
😈 Or don’t give the talk and say, “You must be real fun at parties.” or “My answer to the lord is that the stake president counselor sure is full of himself.”
Sheesh.
:lolno: :silent: I would like to find a small inexpensive home in central Utah and live there part of the year. I would keep my house in my moderate climate and live there the rest of the time. My guess is that would be frowned upon. Kipper wrote:
dande48 wrote:Quote:“When I became an adult, when I opened my eyes and saw actuality, then I started to laugh and have never stopped laughing since that time… This I saw, and I laughed.”
Kipper wrote:
Everything makes me cringe and it shouldn’t. Everybody sounds so dramatic and far fetched. How do I get out of this state of mind. How do I stay in it and not express myself.
Laugh.
I can try that, I’m sure there will be some relief.
Trying to take a close honest look at myself in respect to the institution (as I see it). I see so many good men and women who listen to each other say so many good things, thank each other for their words and agree that these things are all inspired and good for everyone. I just don’t see it that way. I am so turned off that I have almost completely lost the spiritual feeling I used to have while at church and listening to conference. When I pray (rarely) is feels like I am talking to church leaders from an empty room. Really unfulfilling. I remember as a young teenager (I was very active) attending a weeknight service with a friend at his place of worship. We sat in a circle at the end and held hands while the leader prayed and it felt empty to me. Then he said “I think we have all felt the spirit here” and it just turned me off that he would assume that for me. Thing is, I feel exactly the same now at my own place of worship. This is why it’s so hard to be there, I just can’t find that neutral comfortable balance. People know it too. I can tell by how much closeness and fellowship I (don’t) receive in contrast to the past. There’s no concern or interest, it’s just like I’ve crossed some line and by default I’m on my own. I’m sure we all have our turning point and mine might not be the most hurtful but for me there is a clear and painful defining point when the demands of progressing and being an active “appointee” in this church took away from me the things that mattered most. Among those things taken away are traditions I spent years building up with my family and son and time spent together. The most agonizing times for me are when I hear we are about family first followed by someone telling me you’re son will see you honoring you priesthood and see your example while magnifying your calling. He’ll understand and want to follow your footsteps. They’ll top it off with their own personal examples. It kills me when we spend a week talking about maximizing god given potential and completing education after I was compelled to drop out of night school to finish my 5 year appointment serving as a YM leader. Squandered my last opportunity to set an example and earn my only degree while son was still young. Following that he went on his mission and things never were the same. I would be happy to go on but I’ll stuff it all back inside where it will continue to eat away until the end. In the meantime I’ll find ways and things to do that distract me and help me enjoy life. Thanks for allowing the overflow.
Roy wrote:
… One strategy is to pretend that you are an Anthropologist studying the ritualistic patterns of a strange sub-culture.my $0.02 – your mileage may vary.
:clap: For real, it’s easy to see these meetings as a strange sub-culture.
dande48 wrote:Quote:“When I became an adult, when I opened my eyes and saw actuality, then I started to laugh and have never stopped laughing since that time… This I saw, and I laughed.”
Kipper wrote:
Everything makes me cringe and it shouldn’t. Everybody sounds so dramatic and far fetched. How do I get out of this state of mind. How do I stay in it and not express myself.
Laugh.
I can try that, I’m sure there will be some relief.
I am at the point where nothing resonates, nothing sinks in, even those things that should. I know it’s because of the way I receive teachings and comments now. Everything makes me cringe and it shouldn’t. Everybody sounds so dramatic and far fetched. How do I get out of this state of mind. How do I stay in it and not express myself. It turns my stomach. DarkJedi wrote:To chuckles, whenever a chosen generation thing is brought up (usually in PH) I throw out something like “I’ve been hearing this chosen generation thing since I joined the church as a young man in the early 1980s. How many chosen generations can there be?”
I was hearing this in the 60s when I was in primary.
mom3 wrote:
Conversely – my cringe moment with the Chosen People mantra runs along Tevya’s line (Thank you Dande). In all of history, “The Chosen” person/people often suffer the most.I hate suffering. I don’t do it well. I run from it when I can. When we sit in class and are pulling our invisible “I am Chosen” shirt I panic. It’s a great motivator when we are being driven from Nauvoo, but I really don’t want to be a target.
So many religious leaders were killed for being Chosen, whether it was translating scripture, creating scripture, living scripture, etc. Some times they were martyred twice. Bones dug up and reburned to make sure all the remnant was gone.
For me it’s a trigger phrase.
This is where I was headed.
