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LookingHard wrote:
Best of luck Kipper and don’t be shy coming back here. It helps for others to see what works for some and not for others.
In retrospect I don’t see how putting aside pursuits or altogether dropping plans to make a life style suitable and personally rewarding in order to make sure an organization stays in tact is a way to a happy fulfilling life, not to mention all the family time sacrificed. 10 years as scoutmaster, unbelievable. I too lost traditions of family camping and other outings with my son that I can never get back. The church literally limited if not took us out of each others lives except at stake priesthood meetings. There are to many areas where man’s thumbprints are directing us. Also, I am done with therapists. They all lead to medications, not resolutions which to me is uncaring. Same with leadership, no one is going to be understanding and offer resolutions. That would take accountability.
nibbler wrote:
Good luck with your meeting. Let us know how it goes.
I will let you know and thank you for sharing your thoughts. We have lots in common.
Kipper wrote:
Roy wrote:
I do not wear garments all the time. I wear them about half the time. I sometimes wear bottoms without tops. I wear them when it makes sense for me to wear them.Kipper wrote:
Whatever you are doing, if YOU think you [should] wear garments at the time then you should.
I have changed the quote above by one word … and that makes all the difference.
:thumbup:
Yes, thank you. Even when I proof read I leave words out.
Now that I think about it he did say if you can, as in if circumstances allow then you should. Symantics.
:ugeek: Roy wrote:
I do not wear garments all the time. I wear them about half the time. I sometimes wear bottoms without tops. I wear them when it makes sense for me to wear them.Kipper wrote:
Whatever you are doing, if YOU think you [should] wear garments at the time then you should.
I have changed the quote above by one word … and that makes all the difference.
:thumbup:
Yes, thank you. Even when I proof read I leave words out.
Just to follow up with my results, the question did come out as do you wear day and night which seems to be always to me. I replied I could do better, followed by a conversation which ended with whatever you are doing, if YOU think you can wear garments at the time then you should. I was satisfied with that then the garment question was asked again and I was able to answer in the affirmative without compromising my integrity. Felt relieved. Now, OON brought up another point that hit home. For now I’ll just say what is really going on with me isn’t what it seems. It’s kinda like having a mistress I suspect in that I really could be in love but nobody would ever understand or accept. I cannot say that I’m not a non believer, I just don’t enjoy church at all. The talks seem patronizing and the block is busy and doesn’t provide the spiritual peace and uplift I need and expect after my hectic work week. This is a subject I need to continue here. Funny that the group of people here keep me going and more peaceful than any peers or leaders at church.
Heber13 wrote:
I would say it is a commandment from the prophets.From the church website, we read:
Quote:“Our Heavenly Father created this beautiful earth, with all its abundance, for our benefit and use. His purpose is to provide for our needs as we walk in faith and obedience. He has lovingly commanded us to ‘prepare every needful thing’ (see D&C 109:
so that, should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors, and support bishops as they care for others.”“We encourage members worldwide to prepare for adversity in life by having a basic supply of food and water and some money in savings. We ask that you be wise, and do not go to extremes.
They use the word “encourage” but the scripture above seems to be applied to food storage as one thing we are commanded to do.
HOW we do it, and to what level, is up to us, and there doesn’t seem to be a deadline for it. Simply saying…”we are working on it” is keeping the commandment if you are trying.
I’m not sure what other definition of commandment you would be thinking.
After reading the prayer in D&C 109 it seems a stretch to say ‘prepare every needful thing’ means “…should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors, and support bishops as they care for others.” Maybe I’m trying too hard not to see it.
Maybe it is not spoken of as a commandment so that it is understood that way(?) There must be other commandments that seem like council or revelation to members. A quick search on lds.org got me to this talk and the most I could get out of it was to follow the brethren in this principal: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/05/food-storage?lang=eng How foolish we can sometimes be! We have a living prophet; we have God’s living oracles, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles. Let us follow the Brethren and be constant. We need have no fear if we are prepared.
Brothers and sisters, what have we done in our stakes and wards to see that every Latter-day Saint has a year’s reserve of food to sustain life? Let’s not only keep teaching the principle, but let’s also teach our people how.
Follow the prophet. He has counseled us to plant a garden and fruit trees.
In his October 1973 conference address, President Ezra Taft Benson gave some excellent instructions about home storage:
“For the righteous the gospel provides a warning before a calamity, a program for the crises, a refuge for each disaster. …
“The Lord has warned us of famines, but the righteous will have listened to prophets and stored at least a year’s supply of survival food. …
“Brethren and sisters, I know that this welfare program is inspired of God. I have witnessed with my own eyes the ravages of hunger and destitution as, under the direction of the president of the Church, I spent a year in war-torn Europe at the close of World War II, without my family, distributing food, clothing, and bedding to our needy members.
“Thanks be to God for a prophet, for this inspired program, and for Saints who so managed their stewardship that they could provide for their own and still share with others.”
Good stuff, thanks. LookingHard wrote:
Here are a few other resources you might mull overhttp://www.staylds.com/staylds/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5625 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.staylds.com/staylds/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5625 http://rationalfaiths.com/unpacking-temple-recommend-questions/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://rationalfaiths.com/unpacking-temple-recommend-questions/ http://www.mormonstories.org/howtostay/HowToStay.html#Temple_recommend ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.mormonstories.org/howtostay/HowToStay.html#Temple_recommend http://www.churchistrue.com/temple-recommend-questions/http://www.churchistrue.com/temple-recommend-questions/” class=”bbcode_url”>
This has been so, so helpful. I am surrounded by orthodox people, views and interpretations and it is refreshing to step out of that and into a more down to earth environment. I didn’t realize the stress I was placing on myself, every reply helped to lift a weight off me. Hopefully I can get to my interview soon while I am still calm about it. A couple things that stand out are when Heber13 mentioned “God is very loving”. Often I feel that is not the case. In fact I would say I go through most of my days not feeling that way but this reminder touched me. It seems that lessons and talks are mostly warnings and notifications of shortcomings. Also “…don’t need perfection now. Just a willing heart to continue to strive for it”. I definitely fall into that category.
There is so much I want to add but my time is really limited, that’s why I didn’t get back until this morning. It seems strange to me that there are very few, if any people I know in person who I can trust. If I’m not on an island it’s at least a peninsula. Thanks all for taking the time. Back to work now.
mom3 wrote:
This right now is the burning frustration of many friends and family who have left the church. This was the final blow. How many stories are sensationalized to create an image that under scrutiny doesn’t hold up. As great as it is that this story was retracted, in this era of transparency and authenticity shouldn’t we go back and retract many of the “inspiring” stories we tell. Maybe clean house and start fresh?I don’t have full answers on it. For me I am glad I don’t have to answer that question.
For me this is personal. The way the retraction was worded was eloquent and respectful but when I first heard the story I had my doubts. What would have been the reaction had I said something to DW or during SS or HP? I would have been painted in a very different picture no doubt and probably chastened. I have doubts about the complete authenticity of other inspiring faith promoting stories in the past as well and I sure will in the future. Some in my ward describe everything that happens to them and us all day every day as God’s hand and a miracle. I wish I could be candid but I’m glad my thoughts can’t be heard.
This program was introduced to us in ward council as an “assignment” not a calling or even as a volunteer. It was made clear this would be in addition to any callings or other personal responsibilities and it includes young and old. I must agree these are all worthy attributes for any and all individuals to strive for. As I sat and listened my internal kettle began to simmer but why, when it all sounds so good and positive? For one thing I am tired of being compelled to do things when someone else feels it to be a necessity and it’s time. Once they got into the explanations particularly that we need to educate ourselves, manage our finances and possibly learn ins and outs of starting a business my kettle started to whistle and I had to lower my head to hide my grimace. A few years ago I went thru a few rounds of topics here about my experience with a calling that ruined my pursuit of just those things. I know now I should have said no I can’t do it at this time but it was the third time in as many years I was called to do this and I couldn’t get any affirmation from any leaders that I should do what I thought best for myself. Honest I asked for council from several leaders. This made it necessary for me to drop out of school as well as other training, drop off the radar of contacts and mentors I had made and it cost me a ton of money. Before anyone makes the suggestion, I’ll briefly mention that under my circumstances this pursuit could not be resumed again five years later. It took me a long time to bury my disappointment and even anger at times but it’s not too far from the surface. Now I am to understand that we as congregations need to learn about and be diligent about just the things I was striving for. This has opened up some wounds for me that again I need to suppress and hide. There is so much that is claimed to be prophetic that is in reality just well intention men advising us what they think is best. One of these days I am going to walk out of the building and not return. I think if it weren’t for disrupting my family structure I already would have made the exit. For now all I can do is rant.
Thank you all for the thoughtful replies and welcome. Believe me I have read and will re-read every one, there is plenty to take away as usual to help and add to my cure. I still feel fragile cautious but definitely in a better place. I heard once before that I need to figure me out and it struck a chord. Have some errands to run now to I have to cut short but really, thank you. DarkJedi wrote:I feel like I sound like a broken record on topics like this. The reason no one can answer the question is because we don’t know the answer. We know very little about the pre or post earth lives and much of what is said is supposition or speculation – including that all will hear the gospel. It is one of the questions that I have always had and in my TBM days I just let it go. In my current state of belief I also let it go, but now I do it by choosing to focus on the here and now as opposed to some future unknown.
Seems like we could say anything we want and declare it to be truth.
Ann wrote:Kipper wrote:So sorry to disappoint but I turned down the assignment today. I wasn’t sure until the last minute. Today the 2nd counselor asked me formally to talk in a few weeks and handed me a sheet with the topic “Tithing”. I freaked out and I said honestly I cannot talk about something I can’t testify to. I’m sure it would be obvious. He was visibly taken back but said OK.
Later in the evening I got a call from the secretary asking me to meet the bishop Tuesday night. He is new as of about a month ago and a very humble man, never the less I have a lot on my plate I need to talk about. I may start a new thread because some of it I have brought up here and I will surely need some advice on my approach.
I haven’t been in this thread so far, but just have to say that these are the moments I like to picture: honest ones! Assuming freaking out wasn’t mean or violent,
Maybe this is still going to work out well for you and your leaders. I hope to hear about the meeting.
Yes, it was an honest moment inspired by years of frustration moments of not speaking up. I do pay a full tithe but only because I am being obedient. I am curious how that goes over in our discussion. BTW, I freaked out internally which is normal for me but was quite docile on the outside. Candor at church is filtered out during Primary age (IMHO).
