[kristmace]

Being born in the early 80’s, there no one who has influenced the direction of the church in my lifetime more than GBH. I will remember his optimism and what seemed to be a genuine love for the church and it’s members.

Sam is right, he was a moderate and a great PR man for the church. He gave PR answers in a lot of these interviews, but I can’t condemn or criticise for that. In fact, I really appreciate the fact that he was willing to be so open to the media. I can’t see that happening again.

[kristmace]

I really sympathise with this. I recently shared my faith crisis with my parents, and my Mum (a convert) really opened up. What she shared was that Dad (lifelong member) has never questioned it, and Mum’s life is so different now because of the church that she dares not question it as it seems ungrateful for what she has been blessed with. Bottom line though is that neither of them ‘know’.

This was compounded when a distant family member put on FB “I’m a thoroughly converted intellectual Mormon… I know it, live it and love it.” My wife got so mad at that because she felt it was directed at me. I just wanted to reply “You’re not a true intellectual if you’ve never read Brodie, Bushman or Quinn”. Didn’t though! 🙂

[kristmace]

Bear wrote:

Allow beards to people serving in bishoprics etc and I would be so happy!

My Bishop through my teen years had a full on beard. The rules seem to be applied very inconsistently here.

[kristmace]

Handbook of Instructions 2 – p. 173

Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not all attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.

Pretty clear that the Pharisee’s are misguided in their indignation (as usual!)

[kristmace]

Back to the OP,

I would love to see new missionary guidelines that modernise the ‘uniform’ for Elders. The recently released one for sisters is excellent – modern, colourful, stylish yet smart. For me this should be coloured shirts for Elders.

Young Men going to professional jobs in the UK wear fitted suits with stylish striped/checked shirts and thin ties. They certainly don’t look like the guidelines for Elders that I received when I left 10 years ago with black/navy unfitted suits, 80’s silk ties and side parted hair. White shirts for Sundays/Zone Conferences is fine for me, but in general day to day missionary work it’s important that the Elders look fresh and modern.

[kristmace]

It does seem like current church policy has more to do with the politics of prohibition than the revelations of Joseph Smith.

[kristmace]

Great discussion here. Have to agree with DA on this in general.

This is one of my main hangups. As a high school teacher I see so many students come through who are from good families that I just can’t help but feel optimistic about life, the world and the future of mankind. It really bothers me when people in church paint the picture of a world that has been on a deep decline since the 1950s. Even the stats that are thrown around on marriage and divorce don’t paint the whole picture. Last time I looked, marriage rates in the last 5-10 years (in the UK) are actually on the rise, and divorce rates have been falling for years. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8485132.stm” class=”bbcode_url”>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8485132.stm)

On the whole, the vast vast majority of people I meet who are my age (30ish) are family orientated, either with their own spouse and children or with parents and siblings.

[kristmace]

Makes me think that maybe this was an oversight rather than a policy.

[kristmace]

SamBee wrote:

Kristmace, be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Some church advice is well worth sticking to, even if you’re out.

Maybe I miswrote what I meant!

I think the moral guidelines of the church in general are very good, and I would still want most of them taught to my Son and Daughter should I leave the church. The disgreement between my wife and I was that she thought we would find it extremely difficult without the moral foundation of the church, and I thought that we could set morals and boudaries as we personally saw fit and teach them (almost) as effectively.

[kristmace]

Interesting article and discussion.

This is something that has come up recently in discussion between my wife and I. It was mainly conjecturing, but we were discussion the moral boundaries we would give our son and daughter if we/I left the church. She seemed to think that it would be very difficult to teach him any since we lacked the moral foundation provided by the church. I strongly disagreed.

I need to think about this a little bit more so I really know where I stand and what I think.

[kristmace]

I would think that most Gay Mormons who wish to follow a path of faith would choose to do that outside the church. This conflicts with the ‘one answer that’s right for everyone’ teaching.

Back to something Sam said about marriage disintegrating. I cant really see that. Yes, people are getting married at a later stage in their life compared to 40 years ago, but on the whole this is a good thing.

At my place of work I have 14 colleague that have children under the age of 8. 13 of these are married and the odd one out is getting married this summer. Small sample size, but i think on the whole people still value marriage.

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express

[kristmace]

ElCid – its interesting you mentioned the baseball baptisms as that’s all i could think about last night. That appalling stain on the history of the church still has not been completely put to bed. I imagine many mission presidents now served in 1960s in the emerging culture of fast baptisms and minimal teaching.

I was on my mission in 2004 when preach my gospel came out and the main thing we took from it was that lessons had to be completely personalised. The first ‘lesson’ in the manual usually took 3-4 visits as we discussed and progressed an investigator through the massive amounts of new things in there. I get the impression that this isn’t happening anymore.

I’ve always been against baptism being mentioned on the first visit, and if they did that when teaching someone i had referred I’d be furious!

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express

[kristmace]

I watched a couple of the BOA videos and they didn’t really help. It seemed to me that he was focusing on the 2/3 things right in there whilst ignoring the white elephant in the room.

Also, the guy speaking has been outed on FB as having not worked at UCLA for a while. Seems that he wanted to keep his employment at BYU quiet as it gives him less credibility! 😆

[kristmace]

I’ve just started Extensions of Power by Quinn and next on the list is No Man Knows My History.

I’ll return and report

[kristmace]

SamIAm – Superb response there. you put into eloquent words exactly what I was thinking but don’t have the intelligence to say! :clap:

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