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I will forever sing praises to my God and Lord, for all these reasons. I will not sing praise to a man as in Hymn # 27, but will sing Praise to God from who all blessings flow. Hymn #242! It is our very Father and God you are talking about and I have no problem worshipping Him and giving Him all the honor and praise that is due such a loving Father and I do not know one Christian who sees God as self-serving or in need to demand glory, that was the adversary who wanted all glory and you should know that. David loved the Lord, he was musical and was constantly praising him as he felt the blessings of God in his life, it an example we should strive for. I love the Psalms! Contemporary praise music is what brought my husband to Christ, it literally be an instrument that can transform one’s heart and soul, so let us all find it in our hearts to praise our Lord and God, even if we can’t sing… and even in the empty and dry times try to find something to praise Him for. It can change your life. Most Christians DO see God as a very loving Father as it is all over the scriptures, so please watch what you say, Ray. [Long list edited by Moderator -Valoel]
[Please keep the discussion tied to the topic. This should not develop into an off-topic argument between two users, thanks -Valoel]
Ray, your comments are incredibly offensive and highly mistaken, not to mention judgmental of other churches and their members who truly worship the Lord and love HIm with all their heart and soul. It doesn’t seem like you know what worship or praising God really is as you may have never experienced it. May I suggest you actually visit some Christian churches in your community? In most other churches, adults are not allowed to be in a one on one situation even in an office, with youth, and there are no interviews as to worthiness. If a youth comes to see a pastor for any reason, male or female, the door is kept open or they meet out in public area such as walking in park with parents permission as there some instances when they need to process with a mentor as private conversations are necessary at times I don’t believe adults should ask questions of the youth as to things like that or any sort of sexual purity..that is what parents are for. One answer their questions, if need be, but not inquire. I remember feeling like I had to be confessing to my bishop just before my marriage as I was so concerned about worthiness. and b quickly asked if there was penetration. I naively said, what do you mean? He was very nice and just said you are fine. Well, thanks, but… felt I had just divulged things about myself that I would have preferred to keep private. I could have taken my concerns directly to God in prayer, but the church was so strong on sexual sin— I thought I was sinning horribly and was in the end told just to hang in there for a bit longer. While what we did was not such a good idea for couples trying to stay pure until their wedding, as it increases temptation to keep going further, sexual urges are not evil on their own. I understood where he was coming from, but now the whole idea that a bishop could ask questions like that bothers me, especially if it was my child. I would want my kids to come to me, if they had concerns about sex. And this whole topic is quite controversial in the first place. It is all best left to parents beyond the instructing that generic teaching that abstinence of sex until marriage is best. I think parents should sit in on all interviews or at least ask permission from parents. And as far as TR questions go, once every two years is fine for adults, so personally think they should not do this more often than that for kids going to the temple to do baptisms.
You can use your mind and prepare or give talks in church and bear testimony of spiritual things, that is all I can think of, but on the other hand, you can do that in other churches, too. I used to think we had more knowledge, but no longer think that. What we know is pretty much out there already or has been for centuries and many members know little of the bible or it’s history, because of the emphasis on the BofM. I like the self-reliance preparedness training. Church storehouse is a great idea, again though there are other churches are doing things such this as food pantries/clothes closets and don’t limit it to only their members as it is open to anyone in need. They have great guidelines for the youth, I think that is a real strength and some of my friends have even asked for a copy. I DO believe in something outside of what our mind creates, I firmly believe in the spirit or the HG. When I have a moment of doubt, I am prone to question sometimes as I am only human, and we humans do that as we often have trouble fully trusting God as we don’t have the whole picture. However, according to scripture, Romans 8:26-28, the Spirit of God not only maintains a hopewithin us that things will work out because we love God, but that He helps us in our present limitations. Paul does not say the Holy Spirit removes our weaknesses, but that He “helps” us. The Holy Spirit comes along side as our Helper and gives us wisdom and strength. He “intercedes” for us with groans that words cannot express” (v. 26). He comes to our aid for access to the Father (Eph. 2:18).The wonderful thing is His intercessions for us are always in harmony with God’s will as the spirit is part of the Godhead. In the actual Greek, it was written in, Jesus called the Holy Spirit
Parakletos, another Greek word that means “one who is called alongside of another” to help in time of need. Jesus’ primary language was Aramaic, but scholars believe he most probably spoke Hebrew, and quite possibly knew Greek also. The apostle Paul uses another word, sunantilambanetai, that denotes a person coming alongside another to take part of a heavy load to help him bear it. The emphasis Paul is making is this is a divine work. We do not know what to pray for in the midst of our suffering the heavy load, so He gets up under it with us and bears it along. He identifies with us in our weakness. We often do not know how or what to pray for in difficult moments, but He does because He knows us intimately and He knows perfectly the will of God, and our weaknesses. We do not have the whole picture. We see only the hurt, pain, suffering, etc. The Holy Spirit comes to our help and makes intercession. I have had this experience and more than once. I know that sometimes I get the actual words to say in my prayers from the spirit or say to my children when parenting. Like our my will and God’s will align up for a moment. It is rare, but it has happened. I really like Isaiah 65:24, He can answer while we are yet speaking.
In fact, we have two divine intercessors: Jesus Christ is at the right hand of our Father in heaven interceding on our behalf (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25; 1 Jn. 2:1), and the Holy Spirit in our hearts is also interceding (Jn. 14:16, 17). The Spirit Himself “intercedes,” pleads on our behalf. Picture the rescue of someone who “happens on” a person who is in trouble and “in his behalf” pleads with “sighs that baffle words.” The spirit meet us where we are at and sustains us through the labor pains so to speak. Because they are the intercessions of the Holy Spirit, they are acceptable to the Father, such sighs or groans are perfectly intelligent to Him. That is a comforting thought to me, as those sigh and groans are often from our mouths.
Back to the original passage, God the Father searches the hearts of us saints. The mind of the Spirit Himself makes interpretation for the saints according to the will of God (v.27). We do not know what the will of God is, but the Spirit does.
Isaiah 61:3 talks about god giving us beauty for ashes and joy for the mourning. In later verses, it says that He will give us double for our shame of what we have endured. If you can find it in you, try praising the Lord even in your empty times. They did this in OT times, and we can do it now.The very fact that you shared the story of the spirit leading you to a former companion is praise, keep at it. Try to remember all the times, the spirit has been there for you. Keeping pounding on the doors of heaven, if need be. I really like a song. I am going to send the link to you via … need to find it. The lady in the grayish blue shirt had lost her baby as it was born prematurely, just a few weeks before and was having a hard time feeling the spirit of worship, she still worked at it and the outpouring eventually came. LW
Letting go of what has been done to you and releasing it to God or the Lord will certainly help you to feel the spirit again. It is hard, but the spirit will intercede and help you. See Romans 8:26-28. Remember that Christ died for all, even the sins of those who have used or taken advantage of you. I had to release an abusive bishop to the Lord it can be done, it did not mean that I would ever trust the man, but that I had done my part so I could heal and get rid of the pain. I also spoke to my SP about it and we got permission to change wards. Releasing this man to the Lord helped me clean my heart because I wanted it clean from bitterness, it was a beautiful transforming time for me –cleansing my heart. The man never apologized to me personally, but he did tell the SP that he had done wrong. I knew the whole situation was then between them and the Lord, and it really helped. Pain still popped up from time to time, and fear even, and not being able to trust ever again. One thing that I am learning to do more often in my life but by no means have perfected this, is to trust God by the idea that I can do this- “ . . . take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”
(2 Corinthians 10:5)
Try to think of yourself handcuffing intruding thoughts that trigger fears and taking them to the Lord. Together then you and the Lord can interrogate them, asking two questions.
*Where did you come from? (What is the source of the fear? Is it real or imagined?)
*Where are you going? (Will this thought draw me near to God or into fear?)
Finally, ask yourself, Can I do anything about this or should I turn it over to God? He will most likely want you to trust Him and leave it in His care so you can have some peace, at least that is what I get from this verse:
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. Isaiah 26:3.
http://www.fathersloveletter.com/video1.html This might help as well and I encourage you to immerse yourself in the Word, perhaps by marking all the scriptures in this text version as a start.
http://www.fathersloveletter.com/text.html Hope this helps in some way.
LW
Forgot to say thank everyone for your responses, I really appreciated your insights, HiJolly. I read them all when I got home from the temple last night. Tom, it was not that easy, but I like your clever way of responding. Glad your bishop has a sense of humor. They have me under some scrutiny, I am sure as I am not your average white sheep that simply follows. Never have been a black one, but I am sure they are not to sure what to think of me as I am often stubborn in standing up for what I personally believe in. The bishop was joking with me when I saw his signature on my TR after I teased him, seriously, you can’t read it as it is mostly a line running across. He told me that he signs that way because he is a lawyer and signs documents all the time and it has to be quick and easy. The joke was with the church he signs that way, in case he makes the wrong judgement, it can’t be pinned on him. We both laughed. He knew upfront that I was reframing, and it was OK with him, but something new to have a member actually tell them that they are doing so. He is a middle way bishop and I really appreciate his acceptance of our family unorthodox ways from the very beginning. The SP was out of town until Sunday evening, so likely no communication from the counselor, but I think he might have called my bishop to see how that first part went after reading my e-mail. I went in there to meet with him with peace and with hope yesterday morning that I would be able to renew it and see my daughter do baptisms and my son married some day as he will likely get married in the temple. My daughter had told me that she overheard me talking to her grandma Friday evening about resigning and told me that she didn’t want us to do that for her sake and that she would be worried people would judge us and then judge her and she was just making friends in last 6 months there. During the interview, with the 3rd question, the SP started deviating or making additional requirements from the question, asked more by redefining them. I had just done this in September, renewing my recommend. It was my fault, I suppose because I mentioned in the e-mail that my recently RM son didn’t think I should have one and so I quietly tore it up as I felt he was judging me. With that knowledge, he decided to dig deep, I guess. I asked him if he was even allowed to do this. Of course as he saw it as acceptable as he sees himself as the agent of the Lord, so I when he asked me if I thought JS was a prophet, I said yes. As far as being a basically good person deep in his heart, who was inspired at times or was able to lead other spiritually; I do believe he fits the bill of that definition and for the purposes of supporting family, I said it in confidence and with peace. (I personally think JS was a troubled man as well, and did many things that were wrong and as such was not very trustworthy half the time, but I cannot judge his heart. Only the Lord, knows the man’s heart and will judge him, not me.)
The one that tore me up was attending my meetings. He honored that I worshipped with other believers before, but this time was being specifically asking me how often I went to SM, I told him I was there yesterday and that at best once a month. A tear or two came slowly down my cheek, I thought he was going to deny me for this. I told him I believe God doesn’t judge where I or anyone worships and that He knows my heart and I do the best that I can to serve Him with all my heart.
He also asked if I pay a full tithing. I said Yes. He then asked… to the ward? (I personally make little $$, but we give offerings regularly to our other church.) I told him that I have an envelope at home that I need to give to the bishop, that I forgot to give him on Sunday, which I do.As I did think about it last month and on Sunday that I need to make a tithing payment/fast offering to the ward, so my mind could be at ease with this… that I am making a donation for the little I or my daughter do glean from the church. It just skipped my mind after SM as my oldest daughter and husband was coming over with my grand baby so we skipped out after SM. I had my garments on, so that counted for day and night question on my underwear. I do wear them from time to time. Funny thing is he forgot to ask the question on the WofW. I don’t mind one bit, but I don’t think he realized that he did so.
To make a long story short… LOL, it is already long! He did sign it and encouraged me to continue to stay close to the Lord, so I went to the temple last night with my daughter. A sigh of relief for now, I don’t feel the need to resign, I am at peace. There is good in both churches, God knows that and He knows my heart. I also believe that God honors flexible hearts much more than inflexible rules or rituals. I learned that I can be flexible in my mind and heart with the LDS church, forgive it’s founder and all the organization’s inherent imperfections and found that I can still hang on for as long as I need to or want to. Perhaps the SP learned something, too. That for some of us that struggle, he got a reminder to have a flexible at some point in his own heart as he sits in his position trying to be an agent for the Lord. He has had it before, but was getting a bit caught up in ritual of the questions and defining the intent or adding more. I honestly hope that he goes back and reads in the CHI that he is not supposed to ask additional questions. The ones they do ask, those beyond the first two are already way too much in my mind, but understand they are the general parameters for full participation in the LDS church.
I am just very thankful that I was able to be with my daughter last night, it was a sweet moment for us and as I looked around and saw all the youth and the bishop doing all 250 + baptisms. I am reminded of all the good intentions and desires of those who are members, those with honest hearts desiring to worship the Lord in the best way they know. The temple truly is a reverent place, that can bring some peace and quiet into our lives. My oldest daughter met us there and it was nice to hug her in the temple. I know that is kind of silly, but that was a sweet moment too. She reached out and said the most important thing is that you were able to be here for her sister. She didn’t necessarily need to me to explain, she knew my heart, but for me it was much more than that. She knows the struggle of feelings I was dealing with over trying to reconcile my personal beliefs and knowledge with the desire to stay in the church that I had this past weekend over all of this. I shared with her in the hallway and elevator how I was able to do this, how God answered my prayer when I turned it over to HIm the only one who can bring me true peace, so it is easier to just give or lay it as the Lord’s feet and trust in Him.
Just want to say thanks for sharing that article. I really agreed with the guy, and thanks for sharing your thoughts as well. I agree with them, too. I am so grateful for this site, all the podcasts on here. Thank you for your time and dedication to maintaining this effort.Now can you choose a photo, that is a bit more pleasing to look at it. Every time I see it, it feels a bit dreary. I want to think of staying LDS and coming to this site as a bit more hopeful. 
Well, I am off to see my SP, with a prayer in my heart. I took my concerns to the Lord Saturday night and gave them all to Him and woke up Monday morning with the thoughts in my post yesterday, I take it that was God’s way of answering my prayers and even reading your thoughts this morning helped me to be further at peace.
This website deals with defining such. http://mormonalliance.org/definitions.htm I can support this, thanks for sharing such a positive experience. I would love to hear more people share the good stuff, the hopeful moments. Amen and Amen. Thanks for this discussion thread, maybe it is worth Staying LDS as there are some really good discussions here. This is top notch. Thanks everyone for your input! It is so tempting to resign at times, but this site gives me some hope. Has anyone listened to the Bushman interviews? Christfollower at NOM recommended them to me, so I am going to start them tonight. Trying to do all I can to hang on.
