[LadyWisdom]

Rays said this very well:

Quote:

The problem, however, is that many good, sincere people end up exercising unrighteous dominion simply because they care and/or believe so much that they can’t recognize their own actions that overstep righteous boundaries – or because they are thrust into leadership positions for which they are not prepared and are forced to learn on the job (much like a new parent who screws up with the first couple of kids before getting it right with the next two.

I am glad this thread exists, I agree that this is probably the source of what ends up being abusive at times. I think that the most important thing is when one does make mistakes, however, is that the there is effort to repair or make restitution for one’s behavior when it has hurt someone, especially if your SP calls you on it and you confess it was wrong and you were sorry. Why can’t the same person, he was a bishop in my case, go to the person who he did it to and say the same and make an effort to restore trust? Some, I guess, are just incapable of doing so or try to justify it, regardless we need to release them to the Lord and let it be resolved between them. Are they truly ashamed and just want to forget? I remember wanting to have a pure heart and release this person who had hurt me repeatedly to the Lord, as quick as I could after it happened to me, within a matter of a few weeks. I did not want to be bitter, so I prayed for that transformation of heart and even for the pain to go away. I had not completely healed or grieved over the loss it created at the time, so it resurfaced at times, until it was all out but the but the other ill feelings such as the temptation to mutter under my breath that he was a insensitive j*rk, were gone, at least and I knew that Christ died for his sins too. Realizing this, meaning what Ray said above and releasing him to God enabled me to seek out a new ward and eventually try again within the church as I refused to completely lose my LDS connections, even while I was in profound crisis of my faith.

[LadyWisdom]

Thanks for posting this, I didn’t know you were so educated in such. I attended and education week some years ago, that showed how the the gospel tied into Eastern thought, in particular Zen Buddhism. I found it fascinating then and still do. I read a lot.

I really liked The Yoga of Christ article.

I have often found great additional insight from many of these sources such as the Tao Te Ching. My favorite book is The Parent’s Tao Te Ching, it as ancient advice for modern parents. I recently discovered all the non-canonical sources during this past year and love to read more in those sources, I was just reading this morning from some of them in regards to women’s roles in Early Christianity.

Again, thanks for posting this.

[LadyWisdom]

I guess I need some male perspective on this as my hubby is out of town, I have spoke to him about it and he did not have any concerns, don’t know why I wasted my time over it, even if it was only for minutes at at time that the thoughts concerned me. No her advancement is not a state secret, 😆😆 that made me laugh and most everyone who knows she is now turning 12, even if they just found out! I will call or speak to the bishop about nixing the mentioning of graduating from Primary at her request and let him do his duty of acknowledging her coming of age in the church as she said she doesn’t care either way, if it is done; she just didn’t want him to mention the graduation from Primary. See I questioned it might have been more of a silly concern, it is more the other concern that started bred the fear. I just need to face that one head on and perhaps just tell the bishop or the SP that one and ease my mind’s back burner as I doubt they would make me choose one over the other. Thanks for the feedback!

[LadyWisdom]

Thank you, my daughter and I both respect the bishop, he has a good heart and you are right, I am partly reading into things that may never happen in the congregation. It is somewhat of both a real fear and an irrational fear that I needed to face and process out, nevertheless. She does NOT want him to mention Primary, so your suggestion to honor that part was kind of funny. She has not went to anything related to Primary for over a year. She doesn’t mind him acknowledging her birthday or welcoming her officially into YW though as she will no longer be considered a visitor and can go to the temple and such, but she said why do they need to make an issue of age in the first place. I don’t want people to gossip about her or us and why she was coming before in the general congregation as it might clue in the entire ward about her situation. She has told most of her friends over the last few months, and at first, it was like what? So she told me she prefers no mention of her age, but also thinks she can handle it if he says it out loud as she deals with being the youngest at school, finding another friend who was advanced helped. They nearly all thought she was almost 13, including her leaders…. they didn’t know her actual age until recently when the records were transferred.

BTW, I do respect the need for a general order of things, only rarely is this issue of grade advancement ever needed to be addressed as very few kids are in that situation. I think our SP said it does happen, but not very often. And he said there was no excuse for the abuse, that it was wrong how I was treated.I may have be or have been oversensitive, but that still didn’t make that bishop’s words and actions right. There is one girl in our current ward in now in the same situation as my daughter was last year, right now. Her mom is a YW leader and does plan to allow her to join or visit with them at times this summer, I am assuming with permission from the bishop or SP since that is the way it is done in the church, nothing without permission. I am just being honest here. Her daughter still goes willingly to Primary and has friends in her Primary class, my daughter no longer wanted to go as she had no one to associate with of her developmental age, so felt like she needed to act younger to fit in and didn’t like that. I never pushed for her to have every opportunity that the others did at age 12, only be allowed to visit Mutual with her friends that she was sharing the gospel with as she or they didn’t want to attend activity days. She tried taking them there and at 12 and 13 they didn’t fit in nor did my daughter anymore, even is if she knew some of the girls, most were 8-9 and a few were 10 at the time and two grades lower due to her advancement. Her friends wanted a group experience to come to meet other youth, but they wanted to be with my daughter and at appropriate activities for 6th- 8th graders or Middle School/Junior High, so did she.

I just need to talk with the bishop ahead of time, he is a cool bishop and I am sure he will understand where we are coming from and may already be thinking how to do this where it doesn’t put us or her on the spot. I get a lot of love from others in the ward, even a few hugs from a few people in RS today as I went to a cooking class. Not so sure why they are so nice, actually. It really seems like genuine caring. And I don’t think for one minute that those who truly care about me and our family will ever judge me for having joined another church during our crisis or at least I don’t want to think about them ever doing so. Most all know that we attend there as our main service as a family, anyway, including her YW leaders.

I am looking forward to attending the temple with my daughter to watch her do baptism for our ancestors, next week. They also do a dinner afterwards back at the church, which I think is a nice thing to as they are probably famished by then as they leave at 4 pm.

[LadyWisdom]

I don’t know if I should say never mind as it does seem silly to most everyone else, I am sure. I will explain instead. My daughter was advanced a grade sometime ago and also went through puberty early, so we asked for her to move up just over a year ago, it was the beginning of a huge journey of grief and loss with the church, because I would not settle for the pat answer and stood up for my daughter and her needs and that of her friends who she was fellowshipping at the time, they were 12 and 13, but she was only 11 and we were told she was not welcome to even visit YW that her friends could come but not her. I was then a target for PH authority or spiritual abuse both before this comment and after, they all were completely unacceptable in my mind. It was very difficult as I never thought a bishop would do that. We tried to keep it from her, but her and her friends picked up on it that day. My daughter later saw me cry over what was ever was said. We eventually told her what was going on and some of what was being said and have been able to be open ever since about how the church doesn’t always work for everyone or how some people to find other places to worship to help their faith survive. So for me, this a reminder of it all and that we are now outsiders, which for the most part I am fine with. I perhaps have irrational fears, of my daughter being ultimately rejected in the LDS community or my family being judged as sought to worship elsewhere and we unknowingly became apostate in the LDS church, so when I learned this, it has since weighed heavily on my heart. We are now in a new ward, and everyone is really loving and kind, but the fear of ever being rejected or being thought of in the future as a sinner or an apostate does at times worry me, even though intellectually, I know I am not. Ok that is enough risking or sharing of myself. Please be gentle and kind as you respond, I posted here as I need that, I need some reassurance for some reason.

[LadyWisdom]

Many have spoken to you about abuse being unacceptable, so I don’t want to repeat that as I know that you know in your heart that it is not only dangerous to your body, but to heart, mind and soul and that of your children as there is emotional and all kinds of other abuse. I am going to suggest some reading and perhaps going to some classes on domestic abuse to learn more about it and how to get out if need be. One is Too Good to Leave/Too bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum. It is a step by step guide to help you decided whether to stay in a or get out of your relationship. I have read that it often takes women up to 9 times before actually leaving an abusive relationship. Another is a The Language of Letting Go. I have worked with women in these situations and therefore educated myself on the subject. I wish you the best and am so glad you brought it up here for some support. I don’t where you live, but here is a Toll-free number that you can call for some support from anywhere: 866-262-9284. It is a faith based non-profit dedicated to helping women recover from domestic abuse.

[LadyWisdom]

I can relate, to the deep sense of mourning, it was very painful for me. It truly is a process of grieving as it is a real loss. Hang in there, you will make it through and be all the better for it in the end as a person. Focus on Christ and turn to him and to God the Father, they will sustain you during this time. I

[LadyWisdom]

I have not read the actual book, but Valoel shared a summary of his work from another link on a different board that I found very enlightening and it really hit home for me. The light went on about was happening during the whole journey of my crisis of faith. I have shared it with many people since then, including my bishop and got a positive response from it. I also like an essay that someone wrote on The Stages of Faith in the LDS church, by someone named Jeff, if I recall correctly. It really quite convicting to reality with the church’s frame, so needless to say, that was one I didn’t share with my bishop…figured he could find that one on his own as I planted the seed with the Fowler’s link.

LW

[LadyWisdom]

Quote:

1) To have a place of quiet contemplation, where I can tune out the world and think about my life “in sacred space”;

2) To honor the dead.

Those are good reasons for visiting the temple, again this is something I don’t understand very well. I have found lots of verses in the bible that helped calm my mind at one point about the temple and some of what we learn there. I like initiatory work and sealings, however, I no longer feel comfortable doing endowments: unfortunately, the celestial room is the only place besides the chapel for any sort of contemplation and you can’t get there without going through a session.

[LadyWisdom]

I don’t believe it in the way I used to as it doesn’t make complete since to me, so the jury is still out in my mind as to why it got even labeled as such. I did enjoy learning more on FAIR about the subject and listening to some podcasts on the subject from a guy that teaches there at the Y. I really like his perspective. Can’t remember his name, but for a while he was a pastor in a Presbyterian church.

[LadyWisdom]

A stake president who listened to me not entail spiritual abuse from a bishop, knew we started worshipping elsewhere to heal and was ok with doing so and made no judgement, he only counseled me to “stay close to the Lord as you have been”. but later with hearing me out when I completely spilled my guts on the phone with him about the things I learned about church history. I mean everything, 33 wives of JS, being cut of from VTer’s and the pain with that …..whatever was on my mind at the moment. He heard my heart and in the end, some months later honored our request to move to a ward where I felt accepted and made new friends and they saw my heart and reached out to me..

Good friends that I had know for years, one was a sister I visit taught for the last few years, these friends who were true examples of saints and were there for me when I just needed to process and cry during the journey. She told me that I could always call, I did a few times.

A good home teacher and his son who faithful just loved our family and showed that they cared about us.

A new bishop who told me that ” We go where we are spiritually fed,” and just made me feel welcome when I did show up at church.

Reading RSR book and the introduction to a seminar given last summer were extremely validating to my intellectual realization that I was one who took everything literal and one didn’t have to do so in the church.

I think God can turn around painful experiences into something good. You cannot control how others treat you, but you can seek for comfort from God and led him lead you to a higher realm with adversity, you usually emerge a stronger person because of it. I am thankful now for the abusive bishop (never thought I would say that) and other experiences in my life over the last year as they pushed me through to other stages of faith.

God sustained me and gave me beauty for ashes and joy for the mourning. Isaiah 61:3. He also led me exactly where he wanted me. I firmly believe that. My new bishop has two inactive adult sons, and I have shared with him both the introduction to the seminar and Fowler’s Stages of Faith, I did so to promote compassion on those who struggle and during this time found out about his sons.

Sheer determination to not let go of my LDS connections. Having a son on a mission helped with that determination.

Praise music always helped me when I was in my moments of intense grief. In particular, one song was Angel of the Lord. Learning to praise the Lord’s faithfulness and love for us and to find joy in HIm even during the hard times helps.

Reading my scriptures, and books that uplifted me like Having A Mary Spirit. My husband also had a book that helped him called Every Man, God’s Man. Allowing God to change us from the inside out, and do a whole remodeling, even if it meant or felt like the house you built on His rock was crumbling around you. even when you already loved Him. That love can grow stronger as you focus on only on Him during the hard times.

[LadyWisdom]

You can always ask for a change in companions or sisters you VT, it someone really gets to you. I had to do that once. Otherwise, just to try to love them as best you can for who they are. I think that the program itself is to be admired, that it perhaps is even inspired. I like the idea of watch care of each other as sisters and that it often works very well, at other times it completely fails for some reason, perhaps a miscommunication, who knows. I visit an older sister or two in my new ward, just to let them know I care as I have not got an official route as of yet. I am supposed to get one and some visiting teachers this month. I am sure they are praying over this. I will probably get some completely inactive sisters, which will be fine for me. I love to outreach to others. I was touched by reading Valoel’s way of home teaching his DoNot Contact list and that is what made me sign up for this site today. These programs can touch lives,when true charity is extended.

[LadyWisdom]

I now consider myself more just a Christian than LDS now, but I do value my membership in the LDS church and want to be part of it. I love the VTing program, Family hIstory. I appreciate the most of many lessons and supports in provides to youth. We have to reframe in order to survive and stay in the LDS church at least I did, and this was the advice of my SP and new bishop. Hang on to the good and let the bad go, and just stay close to the Lord. They have been supportive of my journey as they could be and knew of the crisis of faith that I have had and I, in turn, have helped them by sharing articles with them that will help them have compassion on others in my shoes for whatever reason that brought them there. For me, it was less church history and more of a bad experience in the church, but they definitely teamed up together and made it a profound sense of loss that I had to mourn over.

[LadyWisdom]

I think that some people are somewhat fearful of asking me questions of what happened or my participation in class, others tell me that they enjoy my comments and realism and see me as very courageous. The RS presidency took 2 months to come visit me in the new ward, but I think it was mainly due to the holidays. I have made many new friends in a new ward after dealing with an abusive bishop it was hard to even step into an LDS building again, but I knew I had to for the sake of my missionary son. The longest I went without going to some sort of a meeting last year was nearly 2 months, I maintained my friendships with my true LDS friends, they were very helpful to me and were always ready to be a listening ear or give hugs, I still went visiting teaching and one of my best friends was a sister I visit taught, never stopped, even if the RS in previous ward cut me off from both having them and being one, my companion said she still wanted me to go with her. I was very confused by all of this and it was extremely painful for me,as I could not get VT’ers in the ward I was attending because my records were not there yet. I think most people are compassionate, loving and supportive when they see your heart, despite if you have lost some faith in the LDS church, they still honor you as being a good person and see that you love the Lord. This has been my experience. I sometimes want to be more open than I can be and forget that most are not as versed in the full history as I am, I do try to be honest at all times about what I believe or what bothers me in the church with my friends and family and likewise what is good and that I enjoy. I have born my testimony 2-3 times in RS last summer and once in Sac. mtg in November. just before my son returned from his mission, so I think that is good for someone who felt the grief was too much and wanted to resign at one point just 2 months before my son came home.

[Author]

Posts