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Heber13 wrote:
You may be referring to Richard Poll’s talk on What the Church Means to People Like Me.
Yes that’s it! Thanks for posting the link, that’s one that I’ve wanted to revisit but didn’t remember where it was at.
I’m one of those that is partially an iron rod and liahona member at the same time on different issues, but I’ve become so much more forgiving and tolerant and accepting of others viewpoints, dare I say flaws. They sin differently than I do and I hope they don’t condemn me for not living up to their standard, whatever standard that may be. I don’t hold it against them if I think they are out in left field.
I often think to myself that if the Savior can forgive me for being such an idiot sometimes, I sure can let a lot slide from those around me.
Great post university, and a lot of good replies. Except for the 50 shades conversation that filtered in haha! I have no desire to watch anoter chickflick. I know i know there are merits to it i just don’t want to throw my hat in. I would say to your original question about how to cope with these extreme views is it doesn’t matter. You maybe just have to let it go . I have a few friends that are democrat, I know right? And they have varying views on many different things, it’s true that most members of the church are republicans or a good majority but that doesn’t mean theres no room for dems or libertarians like me. We’ll deal with these different views in different ways so I would say knowing that, you’re going to come up with different views is let it go.
I said to myself im not going to let other people keep from going to my church. That’s how I deal with the extreme letter of the law people and the anything goes crowd. I am now at a good place where I don’t condemn or judge quickly and harshly like I used to when I hear that so and so is drinking coffee or has a stripper pole in the basement. I also allow those that thump the pulpit and say we’re not doing enough because we’re not following this or that to have their say.
I remember a talk about 15 years ago, about the letter of the law ppl and the spirit of the law ppl getting along and allowing each other to have their views. I didn’t totally understand it at the time like i do now.
Whoever gave it had probably had their own crisis or was trying to find a way to cope.
It can be done.
Thanks that was some good insight Roy. I don’t see myself fixing the Church either, I talk of changing it from the inside but this is a way of coping with things I know I probably have very little overall effect on. It’s a melting pot of imperfection from the top to the bottom, with a caveat that there are many people who are way more spiritual than I am and some that like me, have a long way to go. LookingHard wrote:But I do wonder about those that really are hurt by things at church.
I remember on my mission a woman coming out of the RS class in tears, she had said how difficult it was to love a particular neighbor, the instructor gave an example of being extra charitable and said something like “perhaps that is something you could apply in your situation”. On the surface I didn’t get what upset the sister so much, I understand more now that 1. She was looking for some shared compassion and understanding. 2. She probably had been trying to be more charitable and felt that the comment was saying that no one thought she was already being charitable.
SquarePeg1971 wrote:
It seems the more I study, the more confused and conflicted I become. For now, I’m in the process of making my pro’s and con’s list in the hopes that I will be able to stay in the church, on my own terms. It is so difficult having to question and rediscover literally everything I’ve ever been taught through a new lens. I have always had a problem with polygamy, and felt that I could be an accepted and fellowshipped member while being totally opposed to that “doctrine.” However, my new concerns are far less popular and I have to be pretty much silent to continue.Welcome to the site. Staying on our own terms is an important point of view for me too. Hope we can help as you are on your journey.
Nice, thanks for sharing. Your outlines look a lot like mine, lots of discussion in between (those are the best parts) Metakrain, you’ve got some good advice so far and you’re in a great place to ask questions. It’s been a great outlet for mw. Thanks to everyone on the site. Nibbler said taking each phase is important. It was for me, from non-believers to TBA to evolution.
I shelfed a lot of stuff before I joined, after I joined, during my mission, after my mission. Some stuff I was able to reconcile, and I never wanted to just dump it all either. My spiritual witness was a powerful one and my spiritual experiences keep me afloat. With that, I will say that my faith has evolved, sometimes in slow progressive steps and sometimes in painful growths. I’m not sure where I am on a lot of little issues, but underlying I have been able to separate the church organization from the gospel, which was different from separating the church from the people.
I’m not a fan of dumping anything too quickly, I think of the salamander letter and those that jumped ship over something that they didn’t see the outcome of.
In dealing with people the maxim “We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we’re doing it imperfectly.” Goes a long way for me in dealing with people who have differing opinions.
Welcome and hope to hear your perspectives.
Congrats lookinghard, it’s a struggle as we all get older to be healthy. What’s healthy? Certainly not the buddy bar that I ate for breakfast. But I agree, there is double standard? with keeping the WoW and yet on the other hand being way off in some other area. Hawkgirl, what’s a normal Mormon family? I don’t think we’re normal but we do not live in utah, so I guess it’s relative. We’re not normal like calfornia Mormons I would guess. But like nibble said everyone’s family is different.
Startpoor and heber13 good points. There’s so many outcomes to our actions and not just the “I’m doing what’s right for me”
Welcome to the site. I have to echo everyone’s sentiment and add that it takes a huge amount of forgiveness and work to overcome what you guys have been through as a couple. I agree with anarcy21 as a side note, I’ve told my children what’s in the past is passed. Guilt can be a great motivation to improve, but don’t let your past determine your future. The beautiful thing about the atonement to me is that it washes away it all, except sometimes the consequences that we have to live with physically by our choices. Even those, Heavenly Father can turn into blessings if we allow it.
I grew up drinking coffee sporadically, and still drink herbal tea and non-alcoholic brews. The WoW is still one of those that is definitely a “up for your interpretation” mixed with how stringent your local leadership might be if they knew mixed with who cared what the neighbors think a the caveat which it sounds like you got ultimately how it affects you and your family. Before I was a member I cleaned out a drinking fountain that the office staff would pour their old coffee into. It was always getting clogged. The drain pipe was always filling up with this light brown sludge.
My mother decided after drinking coffee for 30+ years that realizing that if she didn’t drink her normal two cups in the morning she would have a headache. She tapered off to drinking hot water instead as she felt it was healthier.
I give these two examples not to influence decicion, but just because they are on my mind. They’ve influenced my decisions.
He must have reasons for not wanting to sign? Communication to find out where he stands and why he does or doesn’t do what he does will help you both understand each other. I’m not implying that you’re not communicating, but it sounds like there are reasons that you might not be aware of. LookingHard wrote:…wake-up hymn…
Lol
I’ve heard it said as both General Authorities and General Officers. Is there a difference? And when did GA become a title? There’s got to be some history on it.
I agree with Ray about just doing it. Also with DJ. There Were times When I wasnt sure ahat I would do as far as ordinances but in the end I am glad I did them, and I make the decision.
Personally, I think that 1 and 2 can easily be melded together. They could have physically been there and or spiritually been there or even percentages of the two. Even 1 2 and 3 could be melded a little. I don’t think the immaterial nature of Spirit can be catagorized and defined by earthly means, I think we try, and thats why we have scripture in the first place. Visions and spiritual insights don’t follow ‘normal’ constructs. I’m sure we’ve all tried to write down in our journals some profound spiritual experience only to find that it pales to the actual experience of it. I’ve tried to capture it for future generations, and they won’t
getwhat Igot. In that sense, I give JS the benefit of the doubt regarding the differing accounts of the FV.I won’t say that 4 hasn’t crept into my mind and considered angles for it, even the whole conspiracy theory of Oliver and Sidney wanting to establish their own church and JS taking over. It just didn’t seem weighty to me.
So, long story short, I am in 1, 2, and 3.
Lookinhghard wrote:The adults occasionally had to wisper in the 16 and 17 year old “leaders” what to do and it was done – and the younger boys worshiped (most) of the older ones much more than they did most of the adults.
You hit the nail on the head there.
I agree sorry to the OP for stealing the thread. Maybe we should start one cause I’ve got some rants about finances and fundraising too.
BTW i lol’d about the YW medallion cookie. I want some shortbread now.
