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Nice thank you for sharing! My first thought was there were going to be bears along the journey, eating the salmon as they swam up the river.
:problem: DarkJedi wrote:
He said something to the effect of all the changes are pointing toward the end of what he called “casual membership.”
Exactly. I see it as the old way wasn’t working so let’s make the ‘requirements’ more broad and open. Lose the rigidity.
And I see ministering as only more when more is needed, and not forcing a visit/home teaching to get in at the end of the month (which isn’t genuine anyway).
I said ministering is more what I was doing already, I was not a one a month visiter, but people knew they could call me anytime because I was a friend. Whereas our new eqp said we had to get out there even more than before.
dande48 wrote:
If they don’t enjoy it, call them to repentance.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
😆 It’s going to be a long process, but lots of good advice so far. Be a friend and allow some dialogue, it will be ’emotional vomit’ as I’ve heard it referred to where all these emotions and turmoil come to the surface. But after a while it’s best to stop talking about it, after some healing (weeks months?) The more we continue to dredge up the past and repeat it, we relive it and never heal. A relative who went through a fairly nasty divorce years ago is still in the pain of it, she’s allowed herself to be a victim and worse allowed herself to continue to be a victim and prisoner of her own accord. There will be a time to move on from it. It’s good that you are wanting to help, many people would not want to get involved.
nibbler wrote:
But so far all the changes have felt like they are making church less burdensome, which is welcome.
This is the way I felt, like the church was making a change to fit better with the times. Yet many in my ward felt like they were being asked to do more, and they welcomed the challenge.
AmyJ wrote:
I am working through Bushman’s “Rough Stone Rolling” – and while there is a lot to digest, a main theme is “religious-wise EVERYTHING regarding Joseph Smith and the restoration process is more complicated then it seems to be – and that part of the restoration process included “borrowing” already established religious principles, concepts, and adapting them to the church that Joseph Smith was founding.”
Great book. I like Bushman’s treatment of JS’s environment and how he was influenced. Shows that prophecy is not a clear conduit, it is filtered through an imperfect individual, ‘a glass darkly’.
Quote:
Question:Is the glory of the restoration diminished if Joseph Smith took already existing revelation and incorporated it into the theology?
Totally depends.on who you ask and when. 20 years ago I would have said yes, it was a full and complete retoration as everything else was corrupt (Which implies without stating it that the church is perfect). The gospel is perfect, the church is not. Just as prophecy is filtered through an individual who is imperfect, and takes on a ‘flavor’ from that individual, the church as a whole takes on flavors from the body and leadership that make it up.
The today me says it would be ignorant to conclude that JS restored a church devoid of influence from all around him, and centuries of culture and upbringing.
I think you’re on the right track with your DH, but may be splitting hairs. Unlike arguing over dogmatic issues, which doesn’t lead anywhere, you choose to find some common ground. I like thought provoking questions but it may be hard to digest if he’s not willing to think deeply about it. Try in subtle ways and then like you did, go back to common ground.
I think the way you posed your question above is a great and open way to get a discussion going.
I’d like to know as well, the first thought that comes to mind is I need more time to have friends these days. We have friends that are active and less active, we just don’t have time to go do things with them.
Maybe it’s priorities, but raising kids and grandkids takes up a lot of time. Pretty much our only social outlet is church.
That being said, the more I’ve gotten to know members, the more I’ve realized they are nuanced in their own way, even if they are TBM types.
Welcome to the forum, it’s great to find people where it’s safe to express doubts and frustrations, get some advice, etc. We’re all icebergs here in a sense that we only see these little bits of each other’s views, but I can say it’s helped me tremendously to have a sounding board. Thanks to everyone for their input.
Welcome again looking forward to your views.
SamBee wrote:
(Although some Zen Buddhism is very much religion from personal experience.)
I agree, Buddhism according to Buddha himself shouldn’t be a religion, but people like forming structures. Suzuki points out again and again how Zen itself cannot be contained in a religious or dogmatic form. I like the idea of zen in a spiritual metaphysical sense.
I had a copy of Zen in the Art of Archery, and it was on my list to read, then it disappeared. Thanks for the suggestions I will check those out.
dande48 wrote:
Simply put, “There is pain and suffering, here is what causes it, there is an escape from it, and here’s the best way we’ve found to get there”.
Beautifully said.
Arrakeen wrote:
I’m not very familiar with the Zen type of Buddhism though, I’m interested to learn more about that.
Zen is the fulfillment of all Buddhist training and thought, it is enlightenment. All of the stories of how so-and-so obtained enlightenment are not pathways for someone else to obtain it. Zen can’t be described with words, but all these are guideposts along the way. Zen can’t be sought and obtained, it just is. Lots of seemingly contradictory writings on Zen, because it is like describing what salt tastes like.
Old Timer wrote:
I have said on more than one occasion that if I did not love the concept of a Savior so much, even if I view it differently than many other members, I would consider myself a Buddhist Mormon. I see so many similarities between what I consider to be the ideals of each religion, including the theoretical tie between reincarnation and eternal progression.
I think you should consider yourself a Buddhist Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints rather than a Buddhist Mormon
No seriously I personally don’t see anything wrong with adding to your spirituality. Recognize truth (the spirit) wherever it comes from.
SamBee wrote:
..Buddhism are far more complex than the LDS.
I think this is true of most, if not all religions. Maybe I like the watered down version, or more specifically, the end attainment of zen.
SamBee wrote:
There is also an ugly undercurrent in some forms of Buddhism but less so than Hinduism. We have some of this in cultural Christianity, but it’s all there in Buddhism too.
I think this is true of most, if not all religions as well. Either in Dogma or culture,
So far my feeling is the ultimate goal of a Zen path is spiritual enlightenment and connection to the divine. Take away Buddhism as a religion for its essential building up around the main spiritual theme, and you are left with the same thing in Christianity. The basis of Christianity is spiritual connection to the divine, take away all of the different Dogma and essentially it’s all the same.
SamBee wrote:
(There are even bits of Yiddish in this one – “And, ofen ort (immediately), having had daas”)
I admit being a goyim having the (translation) after the word was helpful.
Buddhism seems to have had many fads over the years, I like the underlying messages and spirit of it, much like the message of all religions without their different dogma. I’ll have to read Chieko’s story.
SilentDawning wrote:
1. After you’ve been deeply wronged, the relationship is normally different than in the past. You wouldn’t voluntarily jump back into an intense relationship with the person.
I couldn’t agree more. Took me a long time to get to the point That I realized I could forgive someone or even an institution, and still not trust that person or Institution.
I had to give up long relationships with close people, namely some members of my DW’s extended family. They were toxic, hand I kept forgiving and reconciling with them, until finally it got too much. It shouldn’t have taken so long for me.
One of my favorite quotes over the last year has been forgiveness does not equate to a relationship. I would now extend that and say forgiveness and Reconciliation does not mean you have to trust and have an open relationship.
Interesting. Taking any texts and changing a few words to a familiar language can make an interesting paradigm shift. I once read the trucker’s Bible and the translation for “…and he said unto Peter” was translated to “Yo Pete”.
…and what about all of those people who follow the posted speed limit (man’s law) when they should be following the flow of traffic (God’s law)… You don’t want to be seen as a project for the ward to work on, but it seems like they are just taking you under their wing so to speak. I also wouldn’t worry about it. It also took a long time to get past the are you new in the ward thing for us, mostly that’s because people are sometimes like us, they are in their own world and don’t know everyone in the ward, even after a loooong time.
