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SilentDawning wrote:

On matters of church history, whether Apostles have seen Christ, and the payment of top GA’s they have not been honest with us. They have used a policy of omission rather than commission, to perpetuate untrue beliefs about these items They allow the imaginations of the members to fuel the myths, and don’t say anything about it.

As an example of this, when I was in the MTC Elder Scott came and spoke to us. I quoted a few sentences in my study journal:

Quote:

We do not speak of the event that qualifies us to be apostles of Jesus Christ. Let the Spirit flesh out what I do not say.

The other missionaries in my dorm room and I discussed this after the meeting. We all took it to mean that the apostles must have seen Christ to be qualified. Elder Scott also visited my mission when I was about to come home. He made a similar statement when speaking to us then.

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Old-Timer wrote:

The covenant in the temple simply is to wear it throughout one’s life and not “defile” it.

I agree except that I think “covenant” should be replaced with “instruction” here. At least as far as I can tell, there is no covenant (this would require a promise made to God) to wear the garment either in the initiatory or endowment. If I am remembering the ceremonies wrong please correct me. I don’t mean to split hairs here. I just think there is a big difference between being told to do something and covenanting to do it.

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cwald wrote:

Maybe the old testament stories are just myths? Much like Greeks and Romans adopted?

Yes. Perhaps some are based loosely on true events, but modified extensively over thousands of years of retelling to convey some message. In this case, that message seems to be: do ANYTHING God commands without questioning, no matter what, and you will be rewarded. Maybe this is why Abraham doesn’t question God in this case (but does elsewhere as Ray pointed out): it would detract from the underlying theme of unquestioning obedience.

I have a hard time applying this story to myself in that light. I don’t agree with the idea of unquestioning obedience, especially since the “voice of the Lord” we are supposed to obey is delivered through fallible men. Even though I highly doubt the story was intended to be seen as a “failed test,” I connect more with that message.

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Wow. After reading his letter, I am confident that your son is a good missionary and a good man.

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Agaetis wrote:

The multiple first vision accounts is something I couldn’t reconcile.

I have come to a similar conclusion about this and many other aspects of the Church. Good people here at stayLDS have helped me see that there are still positive aspects to membership (many more than I was willing to admit to myself as I went through feelings of anger, betrayal, etc.). I hope you find these boards as therapeutic as I have. Welcome!

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I missed 6 😳. I’m not sure if that means I need to spend more time reading the conference reports or Harry Potter.

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Oxforddictionarries.com has definitions for sphere:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/sphere” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/sphere

I’ve always interpreted this scripture using definition 1.3: “A celestial body,” but the manual seems to be using definition 2:

Quote:

An area of activity, interest, or expertise; a section of society or an aspect of life distinguished and unified by a particular characteristic.

The use of the word “sphere” in the temple may also add interesting insight into the intended meaning.

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Interesting article. I am trying to understand how “agitating for change” fits in to this definition of apostasy. I suppose advocating that the church has flaws and needs to change would be considered public opposition?

I like your term “acceptable questioning.” It seems to me that “acceptable questioning” in the church is quite limited. This goes hand in hand with accepting the answers given. Acceptable questions can quickly become unacceptable when they are asked repeatedly in the face of inadequate answers.

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Thank you. I connected strongly to the feelings you expressed in your letter.

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fisherman wrote:

True or not it does bring happiness and helps you become a better person. I told her that my doubts were getting worse and scripture study may do me some good as well. I then went into it a ‘little’ bit and it didn’t even phase her. She has been realizing where I’m at (probably due to my increasing cynicism) and said she would support me.

Hi fisherman. It sounds like you and I are having similar experiences with our spouses. My wife recently realized on her own that my beliefs have changed. She asked me to tell her everything and said she didn’t want me to keep secrets from her. So I told her a little bit to see how she would respond. She took it kind of hard for a day or two. Now she has been asking me specific questions as she thinks of them. Now that her initial shock has worn off, we have been able to have some good conversations that have brought us closer together. I think she is seeing the Church in a different light now, though I am very careful not to push my views on her.

That is great that your wife said she would support you! I look forward to hearing more about your experience.

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DarkJedi wrote:

I do realize that some people here don’t like talks that are rehashes of General Conference addresses. While I will quote significant parts from Pres. Uchtdorf, I see no better way to get this message through to a TBM and questioning group combined without doing so – it needs the credibility he offers to reach the ones.

You’ve picked great sources. I don’t think Pres. Uchtdorf’s talk can be emphasized enough. I don’t see any problem with quoting large portions of it. Your outline looks good to me. Good for you for being open about your choice to be inactive. After hearing you say that, I would be much more comfortable approaching you with questions than I would otherwise. You will do a lot of good in this calling! I look forward to hearing how well your talk goes!

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FaithfulSkeptic wrote:

My wife and my kids know of my doubts and questions, but I don’t think they understand how much they trouble me. People in my ward or stake have no idea, as I’ve quietly kept my concerns to myself while remaining very active in the Church.

Hi FaithfulSkeptic! I’m new here too. It sounds like we are having very similar experiences. I’m still on the receiving end of advice and don’t really have any to give. I just wanted you to know that you aren’t going through this alone! Hang in there.

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Old-Timer wrote:

Growing up and establishing independence can be very hard, especially in letting go of what others believe and truly finding yourself. We recognize and respect that when people leave home to go to college, but we too often fail to see the connection to a faith transition. Really, it’s the same thing.

I never thought of it this way before, but it makes so much sense! I think I have reached the stage where I have “[let] go of what others believe” and am in the process of “truly finding myself” now. I finally feel like I am being true to myself, and I feel so much more peaceful than I used to. For once, I don’t feel like I have to know all the answers right away (or ever), and that is such a load off my back.

Forgotten_Charity wrote:

Once we acknowledge and face the fears of the dark it renders useless the only power the dark has over us. It’s how I overcame each of my life transitions( I have had many). By running to fear and embracing it instead of running away. To stand in my own and embrace uncertainty, not not try to build up an illusion of security. Like my friends say “it is what it is”(let the chips fall where they may). And “you never know?!”

Yes! I think that running away from my doubts and my fears about the church for so long made turning around and facing them very difficult. It will probably be a while before I can “embrace uncertainty” like you do, but your example inspires me to continue this journey!

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Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I have read and been inspired by many posts that each of you have written. DJ, SD, and nibbler, thank you so much for the advice. You have helped me gain hope that my situation can improve over time. My beliefs have changed so radically over the last few months that it has been difficult for me not to allow my actions to follow, your advice has helped me to slow down and begin some deep reflection. I am sure I will have many questions for all of you in the upcoming days and months.

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