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  • in reply to: Do I stay or do I go now? #154307
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    You’re definitely not alone. I struggled with some of the same things in my past as well. I can completely relate to the guilt and other feelings you are experiencing. Because I moved around so much, I have talked to probably 8 or 9 different bishops, and had a pretty wide range of attitudes from one branch president who basically shrugged off my problem to over-zealous bishops who made me feel like I was going to hell, even though I had by that time managed my problem to where I only had a couple of problems a year. The hellfire and damnation speeches were a waste of time; you feel guilty enough on your own without their ‘help’. One of the things that was frustrating the most is that most people, unless they’ve been addicted themselves, don’t quite get it. Sometimes they just assume that if you just tried harder or had more faith, you would conquer it. Willpower alone isn’t enough sometimes. Your situation may be more difficult than mine (my addiction never became tangled up with pornography), but there is hope. It’s been probably six years since I had an active addiction. It gets easier. At first it was all I could do to make it from night to night, then week to week. Now it is only on rare occasions when I feel strongly tempted. Hang in there :)

    in reply to: It’s good to find I’m not alone. #154279
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! Being on the forum the lat few days has already started to help me to have a more positive outlook on working through everything. I’m looking forward to getting to know everyone and hearing their insights.

    in reply to: Racism and the Atonement of Jesus Christ #151680
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    Racism is quite ugly, but I think we can be a little more forgiving of those in the older generation that hold some of those views, and LOT more forgiving of historical figures that did. For example, if you believed the world was flat at a time when everyone believed the world was flat, does that make you stupid? I don’t think it really says much about your intelligence either way. I was reading “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins, and I can’t even remember why he brought this up, but he found a quote from Abraham Lincoln where he said in no uncertain terms that black people were inferior to white people. Does that scar the way I think about him? No, I think it is crazy to judge historical figures based on the standards of today’s society. Most of us grew up in a time when racism was condemned. Today it really says nothing about our character if we are not racist; we are just conforming to a societal standard. By contrast, when someone like Abraham Lincoln chose to be LESS racist than society in his time, it took a great deal of moral courage.

    in reply to: I think we are property #153307
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    Sounds a lot like Ancient Astronaut theory. There are a lot of books written on the topic, and a show called Ancient Aliens on History channel. I read one book called Chariots of the Gods by Eric Von Daniken. Very interesting stuff; he mentions how when European explorers first came to the Americas, they were worshiped as gods, in part because of their superior technology. The same thing happened again in the Pacific Islands during World War II with cargo cults. The author makes the case that a lot of the oddities we find in ancient writings about angelic visitations may have been visitors from other planets with technologies that to primitive minds could only me described as magical. It was an interesting read. Ancient Astronaut theorists crack me up though with their tendency to try and turn every strange painting or wood carving they find into a spaceship.

    in reply to: Choice spirits born with disabilities? #153754
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    I always found the idea that our actions in our pre-mortal earth life determined our conditions here on earth to be a two-edged sword. On one hand, it can help to explain some of the apparent unfairness in the world. But it also leads to a LOT of harmful speculation. For example, were those born in the church really better than those born outside of it? I think if the doctrine is a true one, it is probably far more complex than members often make it out to be. I don’t think we can really say that all people born into one situation were more faithful while those born into another were less faithful.

    in reply to: Washington Post article about StayLDS.com #153983
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    That’s actually the article the brought me to this site. :)

    in reply to: FAIR/FARMS LDS Apologetics #153633
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    wayfarer wrote:


    now after 180 years, the church has painted itself into a corner, with hard-line dualistic statements of ‘its all true or the biggest fraud in history.’ It’s neither. The ‘truth’ of the church is in restoring the idea that god continues to reveal his will through the heart and mind of those who listen to that still, small voice. God is not to be found in the creeds and orthodoxy, but rather, in the 1:1 personal experience that we call ‘testimony’. And this ‘testimony’ is not the rote glove-version, but rather, the discovery, line upon line, and precept upon precept, that god is nearer to us as humans than we think. The ‘truth’ of the church is that we have a divine nature, explained by a plan of salvation that uniquely lays out pre-mortal existence and the possibility that all may be in a realm of glory. These things cannot be proven, and truly are unknowable in logical terms, but they can be felt. To know that god is one of us leads us to a higher knowledge that we can be one with god in many unique ways. God is not so distant, but as one of us, fully knows our weakness and has more compassion than we possibly can realize.

    Best quote I’ve read so far on this thread.

    As far as my experience with apologetics – the ones offered by members have always made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Like on my mission when my companions would try and teach investigators that the reason polygamy was instituted was because there were so many widows that needed to be taken care of. FAIR and FARMS helped me get a start to overcoming problems with historical issues, but I wasn’t really in crisis mode when I was last into reading those. I can definitely see how their tendency to give acknowledge but ultimately dismiss the difficult facts can be an annoyance to some.

    in reply to: Promises Promises #152953
    leavingthecave25
    Participant

    I think what someone else said earlier was correct. Going about fulfilling duties or obeying commandments with a sense that God owes us something is totally wrong. Skeptic that I am, I always wonder about people that try and tie EVERY good event that passes their way as if it was a direct blessing from the Lord, when frankly it would have probably happened regardless. But, I think there is something very healthy about being able to recognize the good that comes into our lives and give gratitude for it. It helps free us from the chains of pride and entitlement.

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