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I live in an incredibly remote area. I’ve actually heard that we are the furthest away from any large cities than anyone in the U.S., but I never looked into it. The ward I belong to is a fourty minute drive. The people I live by do not all attend LDS church, although we are all like minded. We all believe in the BoM and the gospel. As far as I’m concerned, some of these people live the gospel more fully than actual church members. Now, being associated with several different polygamous groups, who believe that “polygamy” is the “fulness of the gospel” and the church claiming “the church” has the “fulness of the gospel” I made a thorough study a while back and discovered they are both wrong. We read in Doctrine and Covenants 42:12: “And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.”
So the fullness of the gospel is contained in the BoM! Which is why it’s such an important book. Also there is a difference between the preparatory gospel-administered by the Aaronic priesthood and the fulness of the gospel-administered by the melchezidek priesthood.
It is my opinion that 2Nephi 31 pretty well sums up the fulness of the gospel. The BoM only repeats this same message over and over again. It basically says…have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, receive the baptism of the HG, and THEN in the next chapter it says AFTER you have received the HG then Christ Himself will give you instructions, which in my opinion are different for everyone. If you observe to do whatever He commands you then you will eventually make your calling and election sure/receive the 2nd comforter. That is the gospel right there. All centered in Christ. So, ya, the gospel can absolutely be lived outside the church.
Ilovechrist77 wrote:Yeah. We will just have to wait and see what God meant blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Not me🙂 I intend to gain knowledge while I’m here on Earth. I’m too much of a seeker to be content with waiting til death. I’m pretty intense-Lol. I was told in my patriarchal blessing that I would have all my righteous desires fulfilled. And I’m reminding Heavenly Father about that all the time!Heber13 wrote:Lera wrote:This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” ( Teachings, p. 358.)
it was all sounding about right up until this last sentence.
:problem: hmm…I don’t think this should be taken as any apostasy to the church equates to perdition. You would have to have the heavens opened and see God and Christ, and then do more than leave the church, but actually deny God or the Holy Ghost to not want to have anything to do with God again. It isn’t just a going inactive, IMO.
Taken in the context the first part of the paragraph set it up as nobody could mistake what he was referring to here. Well, unless of course they were only looking for a way to prove their own beliefs right:thumbdown: I agree with you. The God I worship is nice. He is always looking for ways to draw us IN not shut us OUT. And man, making a son of perdition for being inactive? Or what the church considers “apostate” That would be a mean mean God.To deny the Holy Ghost would have to be an unpardonable sin. It would be akin to the fall of Lucifer. He knew God and yet chose a different path. The only reason anyone would have a hard time accepting this is if they don’t understand what “denying the Holy Ghost” is…Basically, receiving the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is receiving KNOWLEDGE of God, Christ and more importantly the atonement Christ wrought out for you, personally. As in YOUR part in the atonement. Which is why the sons of perdition are said to “crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” As far as shedding “innocent blood”? I’m quite sure the only truly innocent blood is Christ’s because even “innocent” children must rely on His atonement for their salvation.
“The Prophet Joseph Smith asked, concerning those who become sons of perdition, “What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” ( Teachings, p. 358.)
“To commit this unpardonable crime a man must receive the gospel, gain from the Holy Ghost by revelation the absolute knowledge of the divinity of Christ, and then deny ‘the new and everlasting covenant by which he was sanctified, calling it an unholy thing, and doing despite to the Spirit of grace.” ( Teachings, p. 128.)
I don’t recall any teachings about murderers being unforgivable?? And I have to say that the commandment “thou shalt not kill” does not bind God at all. He did not say “I shalt not kill.” What He meant was You, man, do not have the right to conceive within yourselves the desire to kill and then act upon it. God has every right to command His people to kill if it’s for the good of the ones losing their lives or others. In the case of Laban, if Nephi hadn’t killed him they wouldn’t have obtained the plates and “a whole nation would have dwindled in unbelief.” And in Old Testament accounts where men went in and wiped out whole cities? It is my opinion that the people who were killed were becoming more and more wicked and would have had a worse state in the after life if they had been permitted to stay alive. Also would have continued having kids and teaching them wickedness. You know God did give life and I have to trust that He knows what’s best for every one of us.
SamBee wrote:Quote:Speaking in tongues is the LEAST of all the gifts and we don’t even see that anymore.
I used to go to a Pentecostal church, you used to see it all the time there, and you COULD feel the spirit. Of course, they’d say the Mormon phenomenon is counterfeit, and the Mormons would say the Pentecostalists are counterfeit…
🙄 The one thing was that it was a very mixed feeling. Some people genuinely seemed to be experiencing something positive and spiritual, others were NOT using a real language of any description (it was all repetition and obviously made up), and there were others who creeped me out on occasion. I remember going to an all night Baptist service where this guy seemed to rock backwards and forwards and bark every time that the word Jesus was mentioned. Something wasn’t right there, either spiritually or mentally.
I’ve never been to a pentecostal church but I did watch a documentary about them. Can’t remember the name of it. They seemed like decent people. What it really made me think of though is how Joseph Smith condemned such practices as unnatural and without useful purpose, since they communicated no intelligence (TPJS, pp. 204, 214). He also admonished the saints to not speak in tongues unless someone with the gift of interpretation was present. (History of the Church 5:31) I would say that anything that is given by the power of the Holy Ghost is not counterfeit regardless of whence it comes. I happen to know for a fact that there are people of other faiths that are better(more humble, faithful, giving, etc…) than I am. Being Mormon certainly isn’t going to save me. Only Jesus Christ can do that, and He can do it for anyone who truly humbles themselves and repents.SamBee wrote:You’re not alone in some of your ideas.
Now I’m wondering where you’re coming from in the new tongue thing. Are you talking about a Pentecostal type experience?
if so, there is plenty of evidence of that in the early LDS, but we have buried it, and replaced it with a trite argument that it refers to the languages missionaries learn in the MTC!
I was actually referring to 2Nephi 3:13 “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.”My only experience with tongues is when an angel came to me in a dream when I was a teen and spoke to me mostly telepathic, or spirit to spirit. But he also spoke in a foreign language. I speak English so what was the point? Well, it was probably either his own language or the Adamic language. Either way I understood every word he said! One of my best friends and sis-in-law, who has received the baptism spoken of here, told me when she shouts praises it isn’t in her own tongue.
Just looking through the history of the church you can see way too many accounts of speaking in tongues to think it’s just learning another language fast.
As far as a “pentecostal thing” what happened there was the apostles receiving the baptism by fire/AKA first comforter/sanctification(there are many terms for it). They couldn’t receive it while Jesus was on the Earth because #1 He is the one who performs it and #2They had God living with them therefore what need would they have of a lesser authority like the Holy Ghost?
The watered down version of the gospel we’re fed is shameful! Speaking in tongues is the LEAST of all the gifts and we don’t even see that anymore. Obviously we’re in a very critical time. Moroni 10:24 “And now I speak unto all the ends of the earth—that if the day cometh that the power and gifts of God shall be done away among you, it shall be because of unbelief.
25 And wo be unto the children of men if this be the case; for there shall be none that doeth good among you, no not one. For if there be one among you that doeth good, he shall work by the power and gifts of God.”
