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Well I am now a bit over 8 years ago before I started having some doubts. I really appreciate the folks in this forum helping me work through many issues.
I came out to my wife over 3 years ago and I am still in a mixed-faith marriage. It threw her for a loop, but she has told me she appreciates that I have not “gone off the edge” and I am still a good person – and I think she means it. I think we are going to be OK. I have reached a point – actually years ago – where I accept that my wife may never leave and I am by and large OK with that. Sure it would be nice if she were to “join” with me, but I am fine if she doesn’t. She is probably struggling with the fact that 1/2 of my kids and their spouses are out of the church (they didn’t even know where my mind was – they came to the conclusions on their own). And I have my last kiddo coming back from his mission in just a while. Those of us that are “out” have not told him, nor the ones still in that we are all “out”. I know it is going to be hard on him, but life has taught me there are times to grab that band-aid and pull it quick and then after a while the healing can start. But I still can’t will myself to tell my mother – who I think still has many years left. I know she won’t disown me or anything, but I know it will break her heart until she dies as I was the one son climbing the church leadership latter.
I did go in at the end of 2020 and told my bishop (a friend of 20 years) that I didn’t pay anything and don’t plan on doing so again. He had already read David Ostler’s book “Bridges” and he seemed to get it. He was empathetic and asked what he could do to help.
I have come to where I can look a bit objectively at the church (is there anybody 100% objective??). I don’t get triggered much at all. I can see the bad, I can see the good.
Looking at my own life, my Mormon upbringing did give me generally a good mix of positives and certainly some negatives.
My main issue is not so much the history, but the leaders hiding and lying about the history. To me it tells me that they don’t have much faith in God as they don’t feel people can take the truth. I am glad that I have made it into my late 50’s and don’t have issues with alcohol or drugs. I think the only 2 items that I am still resent the church is screwing me up sexually with tons of shame for being normal and that now that I am out late in my 50’s, it is damn hard to make really good friends – especially the last year. It does seem that late high school / college is where many of those close friends are made – the ones that last a lifetime. The person that I am closest to from that time has distanced themselves once I told him I am no longer a believer. My college years it felt to me I could never fit in at all as a Mormon way outside the jello belt. I am working on this, but dang it has been hard to make any connections.
I am still reading up on church and church related history, but it is more now just a facination of understanding how the historical threads weave together. I find that interesting. I don’t really read pro-mo blogs anymore and I stopped doing any blogging (I just have no interest – I don’t have anything to say that doesn’t seem to already been said). I have not been on this site for I think a year. It seems like there is just a natural path and the valley of StayLDS was a good part of my journey.
Well I just wanted to stop by again and thank everyone and give an update in case it helps someone else. Send me a DM if you want as I am not all that sure I will be checking back to see replies to this.
Katzpur wrote:
Wow! It sounds like things went remarkably well. I’m happy you have the bishop you do. I’ve had bishops like that before but I’ve also had bishops who would probably have instigated a church court the minute I walked out of their office. I bet it felt good to just get all of that stuff off your chest, didn’t it?
Yes!I do hope the site continues as I think it has a niche. Like SamBee has said, the anonymous nature of this forum allows those just dipping a toe into the less than fully TBM world is important. My participation has dropped way off for 2 reasons. One that had started before Covid was with my relation with the church. I emotionally am kind of done with it. I do attend, but that is because I want to support my wife and don’t want her to have to go to sacrament meeting alone. So I was kind of at a place where I am not really trying to “StayLDS”. So many of the topics are of less interest to me now. It reminds me of that saying, “The opposite of love isn’t hate, it is indifference.” I went through my anger (hate) stage and once I got that out of my system, I just done care as much engaging in the subject. The second issue is related to Covid. I have been working from home for 234 days (started a timer on my phone!). For a few weeks it was nice in that I had lots of time to get stuff done around the house. But very shortly after, work ramped up and has been very busy. I probably look at this site once a month and when I do I see a whole page of topics and I think, “I don’t have the time to look through all of those”, so I just “mark all as read” and move on.
For several years I have contributed $ to keep the site up and I am probably willing to do that again for those that come after me. But I don’t expect to be posting much in the future. But I would like to thank those on this site that have helped me on my journey. I do appreciate it.
DarkJedi wrote:
It could be either – it’s up to you to decide what you believe. It seems we have similar LinkedIn habits, but it wasn’t my experience, it was yours. If you believe it was a tender mercy it was a tender mercy. If you believe it was coincidence it was coincidence.
Exactly what I was going to respond with. The lack of some significant and long-term prayers was the item that put significant structural cracks in my shelf. Once I then ran into the messy history and the cover up Imy shelf was toast and I was slip-sliding down the rabbit hole and dark night of the soul. Once again I literally cried out in prayer for hours each day for nearly weeks with what seemed absolute silence.
I actually have envy for those that feel their prayers are answered.
Old-Timer wrote:
I fixed the typo.😳 :crazy: :wtf:
I noticed that and was trying to figure if that was a Freudian slip. Then “Hambook” made me think of “Green Eggs and Ham”
SilentDawning wrote:
As I’ve aged, I find myself asking for less and less from God. Part of the reason is the frustration I felt when I would pray to God for so many things that were never delivered. It felt like I was sucking air through a straw rather than drawing deeply from a well of refreshment when I would pray.I have come to the conclusion that continued prayer for things that never happen over years and decades is not really a good thing for mental health. It creates this feeling of futility and aloneness and emptiness.
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Amen on that. Same here.
I got behind on my podcasts and just yesterday cleared the last of them. Don’t take this as your podcast is “last on my list”. Actually the opposite. I want to carefully listen to each one as it is probably my one last attempt at keeping activity in the church (something my wife would REALLY like). So I will be intently listening to them and it may take me a while to listen to all that you have put forward. I appreciate the effort you have put forward and I am very much interested in really understanding your positions and views.
After reading the book, I bought the audiobook so I could listen again – maybe a few times. I think I need to really understand what this book is saying about how people work. I think it will give me more understanding and sympathy for others. Minyan Man wrote:
…– Some family history & indexing working. (I found out I’m 9th cousin to Linda Ronstadt.)
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What did you say when you found that out? Did you say of family history, “I’t so easy” even though you looked for a “Long, long time”?
To answer the first question for me – No, not really. I feel it more when I really help someone in need, or I am able to spend some time in nature – especially alone.
In fact this issue is part of what was weighing my shelf down quite a bit – why is none of this working for me? Why do I feel absolutely nothing when I go to the temple (other than a bit freaked-out at the odd nature of the temple and how it seems to be disjointed with the rest of church service)? Even with that, I tried fasting before going, attending very regularly (almost weekly) for a few months and nothing changed – other than getting a feeling this was a waste of my time and was taking me away from my limited family time.
As I mentioned, in my stake they were splitting the ward into 3rd and having 1/3 of the ward come for a quick meeting. Our family was set for the 2nd week. I didn’t feel comfortable going given the description that our bishop had sent out. But my wife went and it seems they were doing about all they could do (masks required, no singing, Mel. Priesthood blessing the sacrament with gloves and makes, sac bread passed out in cups and a “collection” tray for returning cups, all cups spread out on the tray, door openers). So I might have gone if all that was explained. But before they could do week 3 they shut it down for now as the numbers locally were very worrisome.
And DJ’s dream reminded me of a dream after my wife had gone to church the previous Sunday. Then we had gone to a “HS graduation” open house and then a wedding reception late last week and nobody was wearing masks except me and my wife. I didn’t stay long at either spot. But on Saturday morning I woke up from a dream where I attended church and it was all screwed up (go tear a bit of bread off a big loaf yourself for sacrament, zero masks, everyone hugging and laughing and shaking hands). I woke up panicking. I had just mentioned to my wife a week or so before that I couldn’t remember any dreams for many years. I think she realized even more that I am much more worried about getting Covid than she seems to be and it isn’t just I don’t feel like going to church (not saying that isn’t true, but no church has been WONDERFUL to me).
We had the ward split into 3rds, with max 50 people signing up on their one of 3 rotating group signups. We got groups 1 and 2 to meet (less than 50) and then the SP put it all on hold given the surge in Covid cases in the area.
