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I have only had one period where I felt like I struggled to feel the spirit. It started when I was just getting old enough to think about things like that – maybe about 11 or 12. And it has gone until now. So just that one period 
I am very analytical, so I know that I chalk many things up to emotion that others seem to say they felt the spirit. Generally I have not ever been able to pray and get an answer. But having said that, I do look back on my life and I do feel that I am getting some guidance. And I do have one experience that my logical side can’t deny as it makes no sense why a thought came into my mind about something I didn’t know anything about and it was crystal clear. That one experience is probably what kept me from leaving the church in my faith crisis as the earlier experience was just before my mission. But I have never felt the spirit in the temple and I have had prayers go on for decades unanswered. It puzzles me as when I honestly look, I don’t think I see any sins. I think the biggest issue is I don’t exercise as much as I should/don’t eat as good as I should/and I drink caffeinated drinks. Looking at church history and how long the saints had the WOW, but were not held to it as a commandment it doesn’t logically make sense to me that my sinning should be blocking the spirit.
I do remember one of my most urgent pleas I had was in the middle of my faith crisis asking if God was telling me to leave the church. I certainly didn’t get a YES, but over time I have watched a few others leave and many that stay and I am certainly leaning way far to the “stay” side.
So that was a long answer to say, “yes – I too wonder why the spirit seems so distant.”
I hope this does not take away from the good advice DarkJedi, but let me add my own twist.
DarkJedi wrote:1. Try to separate the church and the gospel.
Even before my faith crisis, I had already formulated that there were 3 things: the gospel, the church and it’s administrative corporate structure, and Mormon culture.
The way I see it the first is perfect. The last two have good and bad (on some subjects more bad than good) – but they both help lots of people most of the time (and hurt some people some of the time).
Just A Girl wrote:sorry I didn’t post to the introductions forum! I’ve never been great at navigating forums
No biggie at all. We are more concerned about you than where you posted at!
Just A Girl wrote:But I’m very much looking forward to joining your community. You all seem very wise, insightful, and supportive. Thank you all
Flattery will get you everywhere!
I am new to trying to help others right were you are, but given that I think I was were you are at about a year+ ago I will tell you what I would tell myself if I could go back in time. First (as West said), calm down and don’t make any rash decisions. You will have time to make decisions. This is not a “please don’t leave the church ” plea. It is more to not do something rash. It can feel like I MUST GET THIS RESOLVED
RIGHT NOWBECAUSE I AM SOCONFLICTED. At least that is the way I felt – and I don’t know it would calm down unless I left the church. I didn’t and at this point I am glad I didn’t. One other point is that I think you have tried to swallow the whole enchilada at once. I have read the “Letter to a CES director” (I assume that is what you are talking about) twice and I have not found much else that get’s any “worse”. Since I have studied and more and more I actually find some positive things.
So I really feel sorry for you as it was one of the most painful periods in my life, but at least for me – I am in a much more calm place. I am still working on this journey and I am in no great hurry to resolve this. I honestly feel that God doesn’t want me to just figure this out in 2 weeks and then be done with it.
Do lean on this site for a bit for help.
Heber13 wrote:I like how Terryl Givens uses the wordage “Faith Transition” instead of crisis.
I look at it as my Faith Crisis eventually evolved into a faith transition – that that transition is still going on.SilentDawning wrote:You might consider that a form of ostracization to gay members of our religion as well.
I had the same thought and was thinking if this was intentional or not.
SilentDawning wrote:My goodness, the more I read and ponder, I see that so much of what we do in the church is based on an egocentric view of our membership — straight, married, with children, extended family are all members, etcetera. So many people get “hurt” in the process.
So true. We should be watching out for this and doing what we can to help some that feel a bit left out.
I actually thought of one myself the other day. If I were in a situation where someone started spouting how all gays are evil and going to hell, I think I would say the following:
Quote:I have read a lot from people that have had children come out as gay and they say it wasn’t until that happened that they really thought about this issue in a deep way. I don’t even think that most members have even visited the churches web site mormonsandgays.org where it states clearly that the churches position is that being gay isn’t a sin. I have thought about if one of my son’s came to me and said I was gay, what would I feel and do. I am sure of one thing – I would shower him with love as my son would need all the love and support I could give him to deal with this issue. I would leave no doubt in their mind that I still loved them every bit as much as I had before they told me.
After I thought about this, I realized it was exactly what Dan Witherspoon had mentioned to do. It was a non-argumentative statement (how can talking about a website put out by the church be offensive to an LDS member – even a TBM?) and focused on how I feel. Others could disagree, but you can’t really tell someone they shouldn’t feel a certain way. If someone was as rude to do that, I would simply state that I am not in stewardship over them so I wont tell them how to feel and request the same respect from them.
http://www.holyfetch.com/Mormon_theories/youths.htmlhttp://www.holyfetch.com/Mormon_theories/youths.html” class=”bbcode_url”> Explained.
mackay11 wrote:I’d like to see a few more essays but I’d also like a few more to see the essays.
That sounds like a Neil A Maxwell quote!
🙂 Cadence wrote:OK so we all made mistakes in the past, lets not focus on the blame game. The problem is now we know better. The leaders should know better. What are we going to do about it moving forward? Are we going to face the issues head and and let the chips fall? Or maybe we are going to try and weasel around and act like it was not big deal Joseph was manipulating women. Point is I am not so frustrated about the past because there is nothing I can do about that. The future however needs to be addressed, and how is the church going to deal with that?
Where my struggle is in the present. How shouldItake what leaders are saying now? I am willing and even in a place in my heart where I can forgive much of what was done in the past, but the only way I have arrived at that point is to be what most TBM’s would say is a rather skeptical view of them. When I hear them near pound the pulpit and say, “This isthe way it is!” I can’t help but think, “Bruce R. McConkie was quite sure also on several things.” As I have said before, I don’t feel myself as a leader basher. The vast majority of them even down to bishops are great men and women that give up a significant part of their life in service to the church. I try to put myself in their place before I judge them too harshly. But I can’t see myself saying some of the things I hear them say. I can see a need for the “now what?” My stake president told his leaders to send people to these essays and not to comment on them. These essays “admit”, but they don’t do all that much with the “now what” – except for the “you have believe it and if you don’t then you need to increase your spirituality until you do.”
I am feeling MUCH more calm. I think a sustainable calm also. Also much more that I am the focus My bishop knows that I had a faith crisis and he knows some of where I am at and he absolutely wants me to be honest. I have even given a lesson on faith crisis and my faith crisis to all the adults. He actually had some fairly open discussions at BYU. He hasn’t had a faith crisis from what I can tell, but he isn’t ignorant of issues in general. But I don’t think he studies church history. But he is very sympathetic to how the issues can affect one. I get along with him quite well, but I am not using him to lean on. He has enough bigger fish that I don’t fell a need to burden him more – nor do I know that he could help much other than making me feel loved – and he already does that.
I keep telling my bishop how hard it was for me to go through this without anybody to talk with. I want to be there to help others in the ward. I tell him I don’t want anybody to go through this by themselves. He has sent others to talk with me, but so far nobody has taken him up on it. In fact I was told that someone might have read the letter to a CES director so I re-read it. Can’t say it made my day any happier, but I felt I needed to review it before they brought up some of the items.
But other than 1 call with Bill Reel, I have not had any real discussions. I have talked just a bit with my wife, but she just keeps asking “why do you keep looking at that stuff”. She isn’t one that likes even self confrontation.
I have mentioned just a bit to my oldest son – more of “I have changed the way I look at quite a bit and if you ever have any questions, just know you can bring them to me and I won’t judge you or get mad”, a bit about tolerance towards LGBT, and that leaders can, have, and do (even today) make mistakes. But that talk wasn’t for me. It was for him.
mackay11 wrote:#2. is already available, in the history section of the website:
Quote:Nevertheless, it required time to wind down practices that were so deeply ingrained in family tradition and culture, especially when fermented beverages of all kinds were frequently used for medicinal purposes. The term “strong drink” certainly included distilled spirits like whiskey, which hereafter the Latter-day Saints generally shunned. They took a more moderate approach to milder alcoholic beverages like beer and “pure wine of the grape of the vine of your own make” (see D&C 89:6). For the next two generations, Latter-day Saint leaders taught the Word of Wisdom as a command from God, but they tolerated a variety of viewpoints on how strictly the commandment should be observed. This incubation period gave the Saints time to develop their own tradition of abstinence from habit-forming substances. By the early twentieth century, when scientific medicines were more widely available and temple attendance had become a more regular feature of Latter-day Saint worship, the Church was ready to accept a more exacting standard of observance that would eliminate problems like alcoholism from among the obedient. In 1921, the Lord inspired Church president Heber J. Grant to call on all Saints to live the Word of Wisdom to the letter by completely abstaining from all alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco. Today Church members are expected to live this higher standard.
http://history.lds.org/article/doctrine-and-covenants-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng It also acknowledges the fact that WoW was introduced during the temperance movement.
That almost makes it sound like we should have a 1 generation grace period on WOW for converts. Anybody can join and only their kids born after they join are bound by the WOW.I live outside the Mormon corridor and the only time I heard anything was on my mission from other missionaries. They also told me that I couldn’t swim because the devil had power over water (they thought I was being sarcastic when I asked, “can I drink it then since only a single mouthful could drown me?”) Where was I supposed to hear about it? I was told over and over, “don’t read stuff outside of what comes from the church or deseret book.” I remember in conference being told not to go look elsewhere (now I know they were talking about sunstone) as all the info you need is right here at church. The more devout = the more likely not to know.
But I did know he had more than one wife, but none of the details. And the details are disturbing, but I am more upset from how it was intentionally kept from me and insinuated that all of it was a bunch of lies by anti-Mormons.
