[LookingHard]

I have already copied a few of sister Okazaki’s quotes from this site. It is someone you really want to say, “Dang, I wish I had her as a friend!”

I know I am stating the obvious, but isn’t it interesting how the church members just LOVE her and those like her (Uchtdorf and Holland)? You would think some might be able to see that and look at what they are saying that is different – or others see that and feel they need to counterbalance.

[LookingHard]

Heber13 wrote:

Wishing you peace, SD.

Sometimes I think the church is organized in a way so that change happens and people are placed to work with or around others who give us challenges so we can practice our religion.

I feel for you.

I heard J. Golden said “some are spares and some are flats”

[LookingHard]

I am somewhat new here, but I am very sorry to hear that things didn’t improve. I hope somehow things will change even though at the moment they look like they took a turn for the worse.

[LookingHard]

Rather than start another thread I think my question might fit good here.

I just noticed that I don’t feel that omnipresent “i have to be a missionary to everyone meet” feeling anymore. I feel I can look at others and feel love, but I would have to turn down a WML calling if asked. If someone is interested, I am fine telling them more. Just don’t ask me to go knock on doors.

I dont know how much of this change is just me making my own priorities or some reaction to my faith crisis in the not so distant past.

What do others FEEL about missionary work.

[LookingHard]

Heber13 wrote:

And if anyone hasn’t read Richard Pollman’s talk on “What the Church Means to People Like Me”, I highly suggest the read.

Link: What the Church Means to People Like Me

I love that talk. When it came on the mormondiscussion podcast, it was perfect timing for me and really helped me quite a bit.

Then I got pissed again when I heard that some conference talks took a near direct dig at the whole metaphor. But I have calmed down again

[LookingHard]

nibbler wrote:

one particular talk during conference hurt, and I mean really hurt. Maybe not me personally (my initial emotion was one of anger) but I know people that have been hurt by it and that makes it hurt for me.

Ditto. One of the Saturday sessions I was home alone watching and I recall screaming at the TV with a bit of anger. But I calmed down.

nibbler wrote:

I think the encouraging thing here is that the brethren are trying.

When I first heard something saying, “The brethren know more about things than you think” I didn’t quite believe them. After hearing about John Dehlin’s visit with Elder Holland, I started thinking that they get it a bit. After a bit of time I do think they know, but like what was said – what to do about it? I have a hard enough time figuring it out in my head. If you put me in charge of the church and said, “deal with it” I am sure I would send 1/2 the church running no matter what I did.

[LookingHard]

This appeal to me feels very used-car-salesman pressure (sorry if any on the board have this profession). I do like the following and I think I will use it.

Heber13 wrote:

I’ve covenanted to follow the commandments to the best of my ability. I’m doing the best that I can right now.

[LookingHard]

Oh yeah. The guilt issue.

I used to be very hard on myself on not meeting what I needed to do. And like Nibbler, I am guilty of not usually fully fasting (it gives me killer headaches for usually about 2 days), I don’t read my scriptures anything close to regularly, I really like Dr. Pepper, I don’t have 100% home teaching (especially when the inactive family gives me that vibe that they would rather I not visit them). As you can see, I am a helpless case.

I do still have guilt for some things, but it isn’t some boulder on my shoulder – it is something nudging me to do better. And better in different areas – much more about helping my fellow man. That is where my guilt is now. How am I helping those that are suffering?

I have listened to a few of the podcasts on mormondiscussion and especially the ones on grace. Those have my attention and I am pondering them more and more.

[LookingHard]

cwald wrote:

Old-Timer wrote:

President Uchtdorf has said from the General Conference pulpit that church leaders have made mistakes in the past, and I am 100% certain that he would say the same thing about himself and our current leaders. The recent official statement from the Church about the Priesthood ban also says clearly that former leaders have made mistakes. I support and sustain them as prophets, seers and revelators, but they absolutely do make mistakes.

I will trust President Uchtdorf and the current Church leadership on this one. If anyone disagrees with them, feel free to say so.

Well said.

Yep. The mormon people refuse to listen to their own prophets.

I often want to stand up in testimony and re-iterate what Michael Ash said in his book “Shaken Faith Syndrome” of

Quote:

Some LDS have noted with amusement that the official position of Catholicism is that of an infallible pope, yet few lay Catholics really seem to believe it, while conversely, the official position of Mormonism is that of a fallible prophet, yet few Mormons really seem to believe it.”

Dang that is so true with so many.

But where does that come from? I would say mostly from the leaders and a bit from the correlated gospel.

I wonder how much heat Pres. Uchtdorf took from the other 14 to say that “leaders had made mistakes.” From what I understand from many sources, among the apostles they have an ‘agreement’ or a rule that they will never criticize each other. To a very large extent this is good and they need to stay united or they would probably cause the church to move into Uchtdorfites, Hollandites, and Packerites. OK – that may be happening a bit anyway, but I do thing it would be worse if they were to air their differences publicly. It would be VERY interesting to have a set of somewhat older meeting minutes published. I for one would like to have been a fly on the wall after Elder Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” talk. You hear second-hand that there was not agreement within the 15 brethren after that. But not unpredictable, the more staunch “we have ALL the truth / we are the ONLY true church” contingent grabbed on to this and considers it absolute gospel and anybody not agreeing with it is just weak in testimony. It would be so interesting to hear if SWK and ETB got into it after that talk. It would almost be like Brigham Young and Orson Pratt publicly disagreeing on the Adam God doctrine. It might make for conference being a bit more exciting though!

[LookingHard]

I can say for myself that internally I am MUCH more at peace and feel closer to God. I actually didn’t ever lose my faith in God while in the midst of my faith crisis. I remember begging God to tell me if what he was trying to tell me was that the church wasn’t true – asking if he was guiding me away. Even for a decade I had been saying I saw the Gospel separate from the church (an administrative need) and a separate Mormon culture. But I was still trying to reach God through the church and my efforts to please him. I don’t see it that way at all now. I feel more directly connected to God and I feel much more concerned about how I am helping my fellow man (not just home teaching) than ever before. The church (at the ward level) is a good organization that gives me opportunities to serve, but I see that as a starting point – not “the point”.

Even though I want others to not have to go through what I did alone, I can look back now and say I am glad it happened. I am happier now and I feel more love towards others and much less concerned about specifics of the church. It is a bit more separate than before – if that makes any sense.

[LookingHard]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

we are terrible at assessing our own ability to handle someone’s flaws.

I would disagree. I have found that I know I am not good at handling someone else’s flaws. It is one of the hardest things in life.

[LookingHard]

Nice analogy Dark. And a lighthouse that is on a very small island is seen for 360 degrees (lets just stay in 2 dimensions or the math gets more complex ).

And it there is 1 path for everyone, how do we explain that each of us have to overcome different obstacles? I think we each have our OWN path that was made for us. I struggle a bit with reconciling “narrow is the way” in that analogy. Maybe that we each have weaknesses that if we indulge in we are at risk of falling off our path.

[LookingHard]

I am getting much better sitting next to a literalist even if they think I am wrong. Much more than a few months ago.

[LookingHard]

DarkJedi wrote:

Pretty much what Nibbler said. It really makes no difference to me if any story in the old scriptures actually happened or not – whether I believe Jonah lived in a fish for three days or not doesn’t matter as long as I get the moral of the story.

I am there now also, but it does not bother me. It used to because I couldn’t figure out how the earth could be completely flooded. Now I don’t see a conflict and I can concentrate on what the takeaway should be – what does it tell me about God.

[LookingHard]

My current feeling is that some prophets are kind of scoundrels. I am becoming more comfortable with this. That the Lord can work through people with real problems. But if I believe this and still hold the gospel as true – I have a much harder time litening to some (but not all) conference talks.

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