[lotsofgray]

You can pay “in-kind” tithing direct to salt lake and this includes cash if you like. Or securities or cars,boats,gulfstream jets — anything the church can sell. And you can tell your ward clerk or bishop you paid “in kind” to doc – they don’t get a record of it locally.

You can then say “I gave at the (hq) office” .

…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

So does this mean the word “love” is indeed or not mentioned in sealing ordinance?

I got distracted by your other definitions of the word[emoji868]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Another piece of the onion removed!

Thanks for the clarification.[emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Re: Sealing Wording.

Is it true that it does not and has never included the word “love” anywhere?

Haven’t been to one in a long time. Can’t remember if this is still true or not.

Maybe it’s just me but Jesus used that word a lot.

???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Anyone know the history of wow and when it became commandment instead of suggestion???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Wish I knew also. I was hoping to have a chance to have a fatherly conversation about what advancement in the priesthood is all about and where it goes. My son doesn’t turn 16 until later in the year, yet on Jan 2 the ward exec secy was already hot to trot to schedule the interview.

I asked for time to again have a father conversation about this with my son, and the response was – “ok, how about a day or two after that?”.

People we need to SLOW DOWN all of this automatic social progression. It has lost its meaning to young men other than turning a certain age and having to have a scary interview with a stranger.

???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

How about going back to “not by way of commandment…” as it was intended originally. Broad suggestion and from “the best books” imparting great wisdom…

Thoughts?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

I think what we all might be trying to say is “…not sure I have enough testimony”… to do a traditional proselyting mission.

Funny, autocorrect just tried to change “proselyting” to “prosecuting”… hmmm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

I’m exhausted just think about the decision process! Every meeting you attend with your husband will send the message you are more an more interested. I have to tell my wife no so I can get her even to listen to why I might not want – and even then she doesn’t care and just gets mad. No win either way here…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

DarkJedi wrote:

I’m not sure having such a discussion with a leader is a foregone conclusion. Other than temple recommend interviews which I have initiated and require only yes or no answers I have not had such an interview or discussion since my return to church about 3 1/2 years ago. My SP and his counselors, as well as most of the HC, know I have doubts but they don’t know what they are. They also know I believe in Christ and that I believe little else matters. When I bear testimony or witness I never say “I know” because I don’t know, and I have been somewhat forward in expressing the idea that none of us really know. I do use words like “I hope” and “I believe” and “I think.” I also make direct statements like “God loves us” or “Jesus Christ has already paid the price.” It takes a bit of work sometimes, but one can really “get away” with saying many things couched in Mormonese (or sheepese as we sometimes call it here) and it does get easier with practice.

I think it’s also important to look at what the TR questions are really asking and answer what they ask. For example, they don’t ask if you know anything but they do ask if you believe. Believing can be nebulous enough that it can include wanting to believe or even just hoping.

Thanks for this. Extremely helpful ideas. I️ guess the on the spot idea is having the hp/Ed president want to do a ppi, or a bishop just “wanting to talk” one on one. And every new leader that comes along and sees I️ don’t have a TR feeling like they need to know why. I️ will try out many of your suggestions and “return and report”.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

DarkJedi wrote:

Thanks, Mom. I do like the Light the World “program” and I know members who do it (and I do some). On the other hand, it saddens me that we have to have a program to get members to do it and we only do it now. However, any good at all is still good.

EXACTLY! Why do members always have to wait for a program or assignment from church to do this? This is what all “good Christians” should already be doing all the time. How did we ever get away from this to begin with?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Roy wrote:

I have said something like the following. “The plan is so expansive and beautiful that I hope for it to be true. I am giving effort every day to act on that hope. As I understand it, that is what faith is.”

I do not have a TR so I do not feel that there is any need for anyone to ask me probing questions.

I also do not correct people when they say things that I might quibble with. If Bishop says, “I’m sure your wife would love for you to take her back to the temple.” I do not say that my wife has health problems that would prevent her from sitting through a session. I respond, “We are working on that, thank you for your support Bishop.”

If he says “Tithing is a commandment from God, and is the one of the only commandments you can live with perfection, just move the decimal for 1/10th.” I do not contradict him on any particular. I smile and nod and maybe say, “We are working on that, thank you for your support Bishop.”

I very much like this idea. “We are working… or. We are hoping…” sound like giving effort to changing, though I may not really mean it. Thank you for this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Katzpur wrote:

I went through the temple for the first time back in 1970. That was a very long time ago, and things have changed a lot since then. I remember being totally freaked out by the initiatory ceremony, and I didn’t do initiatories again until just a few years ago, after the major changes were made. I quite enjoy doing them now, but I’ll probably never forget the horror of my first experience. Several of you have mentioned being “naked.” I’m confused by that. I can’t remember ever being stark naked in front of anybody, but I do remember just wearing a poncho-like thing and being touched in ways that were very uncomfortable for me. I’m assuming that’s what the rest of you meant by “naked.”

I received my own endowment a week before I got married. My mother had just gone into the hospital for emergency surgery and was not able to attend with me, so my future sister-in-law stood in for her. I remember people telling me, “Now don’t be afraid,” before I went. I couldn’t imagine what I could possibly find to be afraid of in the temple. Back then, there was no such thing as temple preparation classes, so I went in absolutely clueless and came out in a fog. Back then, you even had to wear special garments when you went through a session. It was just flat out NOT a good experience for me. For the first year or two after our being sealed, my husband and I went a handful of times, but it never got any better. As a matter of fact, hardly a time went by when something negative didn’t happen. It was usually a temple worker scolding me about something. I set the envelope containing my robes, etc. on the floor in the restroom once and you’d have thought I’d committed the unpardonable sin. It got to where I was just on pins and needles trying not to do anything wrong. Finally, I told my husband that I’d had enough, and we stopped going for close to 20 years.

At the urging of a male friend I had at work, we started going again back in about 1989. It was hard at first, and I was still pretty nervous. I remember once, after I’d been back fewer than a half dozen times, I was just about to pass through the veil when the temple worker looked at me and said (in the sternest, most condemning voice imaginable), “Sister, don’t you EVER wear those earrings to the temple again!” The second I got into the Celestial room, I started to bawl. To this day, I don’t know what was wrong with my earrings, but after a good hard cry, I decided that whatever it was, it was her problem, not mine, and that I wasn’t going to let it keep me out of the temple for the next 20 years.

We go these days about once every couple of months. I never, ever, ever “feel the spirit,” and I am generally bored to tears. But I do keep going for just one main reason: I feel like I live a very blessed life and I know that Heavenly Father knows that attending the temple is a sacrifice for me. He knows I would rather be doing almost anything else, but that I am trying to be obedient. When I ask myself why go, I basically just tell myself, “I know not, save the Lord has commanded me.” I have experienced one miracle in my life that I feel quite certain was tied to my decision to go to the temple one night, so I can’t say I’ve gotten nothing out of it. Still, it’s hard for me because I really just don’t have much of a testimony that it’s something that’s all that important to the Lord. I go, thinking, “Well, just in case…”

One quick story before I stop rambling on. We were married/sealed in the Salt Lake temple. Back then (1970), it wasn’t terribly uncommon to be sealed by a General Authority. President Monson had been a friend of my father’s family, so my parents asked him if he’d mind performing the sealing. He did, and it was truly memorable. After the actual sealing was over, he told my husband and I that we could kiss over the alter. When my husband put his arms around me, he accidentally pulled my veil off my head and it rested on my shoulders. I kind of freaked out and hurriedly put it back on. My husband tried putting his arms around me again, and again it fell off. I put it back on and it fell off again the third time he tried to hug and kiss me. At that point, President Monson interceded. “Don’t worry about the veil,” he said. “Just forget about it. You’ve obviously married a very passionate man.” His attitude made so much difference. On the way back to the dressing room, though, a little elderly temple worker saw me with the veil off my head and had a meltdown. “Oh dear! Oh dear! You mustn’t take the veil off until you’re back in the dressing room!” she said. Thoroughly annoyed, I looked at her and said, “Elder Monson just performed my marriage. The way my veil is was okay with him, so it ought to be okay with you!” Then I kind of glared at her and walked off to change my clothes.

I enjoyed this story thoroughly. I have felt much the same since going through originally in the early 80’s. I think my grandmother must have been the oft-mentioned “nervous nelly” in your story! Don’t worry, that kind of small-minded nagginess doesn’t work for anyone unless you let it. I’m all for exactitude and correctness but never at the expense of offense or spirit-sucking impact. Thanks again for sharing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:

I am so heartbroken. This is long winded and will likely hurt my anonymity. It seems that the saying the church is true but the people aren’t just doesn’t cover some things especially when they happen over and over again and to your children. We are an active family that held visible callings until a few years ago with a leadership change, now things are very different I don’t understand why.

I have a lovely teen aged daughter who loves the gospel and Jesus Christ. She has been treated very poorly but our ward for many years. To the point we have worked out with the primary that she is the assistant music director instead of going to Young Womens. The bullying and exclusion continues in the program not just to her but to a couple of other girls who don’t fit the leaders and girls ideal. Those traits for my daughter would include things like liking to read, enjoying anime, being very intelligent and good at school, and being very talented in music. And the most damaging thing of all being she has friends that are not church members, which isn’t that shocking as we don’t live in the west.

Just as a very tame example all of the girls over the age of 14 met together to make matching outfits for the stake dance last Saturday except for two who were not invited. They then all drove together to a Young Women leaders house and got rides to the dance. My daughter had no interest in going as it is really miserable because of how she is treated at dances like being told the wrong location by leaders, or the other youth from our ward saying awful things to her, and the friends from school she used to bring. The other left out young woman’s mom and the young woman had been asking for a ride for more than a week, but there was no room for her to get a ride, and it wasn’t official rides anyway just friends as it was explained to DD and the other left out one by another Young woman in my hearing.

On to why I just don’t know what to do. DD has an amazing classical voice. She is really talented and often sings at other churches. It has been a major part of the issues in Young Women’s as the other girls seem very upset and competitive about this often telling her she sounds terrible and the leaders doing things like excluding her from the Girls Camp choir.

In the spring she worked on and was going to sing in sacrament meeting a hymn out of the book. She was told the week before that there was a scheduling mishap and the choir was going to sing. The Choir meets at my house, no one knew we were singing, we had nothing prepared and it was suggested by everyone but the director that was just let DD sing as she was ready. Well the bishop was called and we were told the Stake President was coming the therefore she couldn’t sing. : She was pretty upset, but decided to sing it a few weeks later. She has not sung in church since then.

Fast forward to October. The ward music person asked if she would sing in SM a few weeks before Christmas. DD said yes and the first week of October chose “Mary Did You Know”. We asked if that would work and were told by the Music person yes that was great. DD found a wonderful arrangement, ordered music, found an accompanist, and has practiced it for I am sure over 15 hours over the last 5 weeks including with her voice instructor. It is so beautiful it gives me chills and I get to hear her sing all the time.

I got a text today that the Bishopric has decided that the song is too secular and she will not be able to sing it. I have heard some pretty secular songs from out pulpit before, it is not like we only sing hymns for special music. I am not sure what is too secular about a song that is entirely about Christ, his miracles, and that he came to save us. DD feels like they do not want her to sing, just like last time. I agree with her they don’t want her to sing. The Bishopric has members in it that also have daughters, this has been a major problem before. I am so angry and hurt. I think we put up with a lot and DD puts up with the most. I know this looks like milk stripping, but it is really more than that.

I sent an email to the Bishop that just asked to talk about the singing, but I don’t even know what to say if he will even meet with me as he is notorious for scheduling and canceling appointments over and over with people he doesn’t want to talk to.

So sorry to hear about this. Another in a “Series of Unfortunate Events”… my mother was an excellent acoustic guitar player and could play very respectful church hymns on guitar and sing to boot, but was denied any opportunity to play at church because a guitar is somehow so different than a violin, cello, or piano… oh well, she had to blow it off. Sometimes our social organizations like yw ym RS etc. have an opposite effect than intended in bringing people together with some semblance of control. My kids have always found better friendships outside of the ward context, and usually via outside activities like sports or other music. Mostly non member also — I encourage inclusivity over cliques. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a bishop resolution to the problem. They are happy when most others are and don’t have time for the left-outs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lotsofgray]

Totally agree with all here. I can’t imagine any “normal” teenager being at all excited about mission realities before going. I am glad that at least now it’s public what a real mission is about. Hopefully these kinds of pre-commit disclosures will help kids and adults make personal decisions with eyes wide open. Also would be good to do something similar with anyone going to the temple. By the time we find out what any of this is like it’s too late.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Author]

Posts