[MayB]

I know how you feel. I struggle with anger as well and with fear. Unlike you, I really have no desire to do anything “wild”, but I do find myself angry with some of the black and white thinking, the culture of judgement, and guilt and shame that I see used by the church.

opentofreedom wrote:

It was as if being a “true believer” in the church kept me from being what I view as “Christlike”

This is exactly how I have felt too. I feared outsiders more than having Christlike love for them. I figured that paying tithing and participating in church sponsored service projects were all that was really required of me as far as serving the poor or needy. Now my eyes are open and I see so many other ways to truly bless the lives of others.

I really have no profound words of wisdom. Some of the others probably will. But know that you are not alone. Take things slowly and really think about your motives. I would advise against doing anything simply to “get back” at the church. Because really, the church won’t feel anything or probably even care if you get a tattoo or your piercings or go binge drinking one weekend. Look at what you want and only take action on those things that will be of a benefit to you, whether or not they’re church approved.

Hang in there. I hear it gets better.

[MayB]

Hello disillusion. Welcome. I don’t envy your situation one bit. On the one hand, I think it would be fascinating to be privy to more of the inner workings of the church and its businesses, but on the other, from what I know already I’m sure I wouldn’t like what I would find in many instances. I’m glad you were directed to this board. Many of the people here have great insights and good advice. We’re all finding our own way and many of us are working on staying in the church for various reasons. I’ve only been here for a few months and I’ve benefited greatly from reading current and past threads and from the insights and advice given to me.

Hope to hear more from you.

[MayB]

Hi Conflicted. Welcome to the board. I haven’t been here too long, but it’s been a great source of support and varying points of view for me as I navigate my changing views on the church and the role it plays in my faith and my life. It’s been great to have a place to express my thoughts and frustrations without feeling threatened or judged.

I don’t have any wonderful words of wisdom. There are many here who are more wise and eloquent than I am and I’m sure you’ll benefit from the discussions and viewpoints offered.

I’m a SAHM for the last 10 years, mostly out of guilt, but am working towards getting a graduate degree and gradually doing more and more work outside the home. It feels wonderful and my husband and kids are very supportive of me. I’m impressed that you’ve been able to manage full time work, demanding callings, and your family for so long. It sounds like it’s definitely time for a bit of self-care and more time for your family.

I don’t think there would be anything wrong with you approaching your bishop and asking for a break from callings. You’ve most definitely given the church plenty of service over the years and it sounds like a rest would be beneficial to you. It would give you time and space to think and sort things out and I’m sure your family would love having you available more.

I hope to hear more from you on the boards.

[MayB]

I have issues with the garments as well. Lately I’m not wearing them as much for various reasons. I think a spaghetti strap cami and boy shorts would be wonderful! Sadly, I don’t see that ever happening. I applaud you for even bringing it up with your friends. You’re a braver soul than me. :clap:

[MayB]

seeker wrote:

“How did you deal with the expectations of going on a mission and going to BYU? What did you do, and how did it end up for you?”

Being female, the expectations were a bit different, but definitely still there. For me, the expectation was to go to college until I found a husband, get married in the temple, quit school, and have babies. I know not all young women in the church may feel this pressure and I didn’t feel the pressure to quit school and have kids until after I was married, but for me the pressure was real and it was intense. It was backed up by statements and talks from the GAs and my TBM parents and in-laws. What did I do? I’m sorry to say that I caved to the pressure. My husband and I got married just 10 weeks after he got home from his mission and I was only 19. We had our first child 18 months later. I quit school to be home and we had three more kids. If I could go back, I’d still marry the same man but I’d date him longer and maybe not even get married in the temple first, but sealed later. I’d wait to have children until after I finished my college degree and gotten some work experience and then would still have worked part time. Things are good for me now. I finally finished my BS and I’m starting graduate studies this fall. Our marriage is great and our kids are wonderful! But caving to the expectations of others at the expense of what I felt was right for me caused a lot of heartache and pain and made some things in my life unnecessarily more difficult.

seeker wrote:

But at the same time, I don’t want to throw away all that I’ve been conditioned to know is true for the last eighteen years.

The key word here is “conditioned”. I’m in the process of figuring out which of those things we’re “conditioned” to know are true actually are true and are good for me. I encourage you to do the same. It’s very much a personal journey we’re on here and you are at a point in your life where you’re just starting to figure out who you really are and what you believe in and value.

So I would tell you to do what you feel is right FOR YOU. I also agree with church0333’s advice to be kind to those who question you about it and even those who judge you for it. You can tell them that you’ve prayed about things and this is the answer you’ve received. They can’t argue with that. Well, I guess they can, but they shouldn’t. Personal revelation is real and I believe that it trumps general conference talks and cultural pressure.

Good luck with whatever you choose! You sound like a great guy with a good head on his shoulders. :thumbup:

[MayB]

mackay11 wrote:

I try to look for petals not thorns (but regularly fail!). If I get one petal a week it remains a ‘good day.’

This is what I’m working on being able to do. My faith transition is still really fresh, which sometimes makes it a bit more difficult. But I try to focus on seeing the ways that the gospel is uplifting people and bringing them peace. We had a return missionary speak in sacrament meeting yesterday and although I can’t agree with much of what he said, I could see that his mission had given him strength and helped him grow and become a better person. I think that was my one petal yesterday.

Ann wrote:

MayB, I don’t know if this will help you, but I’m working on investing less significance in what is said and done in lessons. I still care A LOT, just less than I used to. I’m making a conscious effort, though, to express myself more honestly one on one. The other day a friend was talking about tithing being a contentious issue in her marriage because her non-member husband is not on board. We talked about that a bit. Then I said that I like the concept of tithing, I pay it willingly, I’m fortunate my husband’s like-minded, but that I personally didn’t think that temple recommends should be conditional on payment of tithing. That was it. It was refreshing to express myself, but it also felt “appropriate.”

This is great Ann. I find myself trying to do the same.

church0333 wrote:

It is nice when there are a lot of discussions and different ideas are explored.

I agree. Sometimes it’s difficult for me to be the moderator of these discussions in our SS class because some members have the tendency to bring up their ideas and present them as irrefutable gospel truth. But overall, our class does a good job of making discussions focused and meaningful.

SilentDawning wrote:

I would have had to bit my tongue in another way as well — when they commented on how Utah is #1 for charitable giving, I would have also thought “Yes, given the punishment associated with non-payment of tithing — TR non-renewal”. However, I wouldn’t say that either.

That thought popped into my mind as well. I’m currently having a very difficult time with tithing. I’ve been in the place where we had to choose between tithing and food for us and our children. I chose to feed my family. I did keep track of what tithing we owed and we paid it all when we had the money. But I remember feeling so guilty at the time for not paying it first and just having faith that we would be taken care of like they keep teaching us to. Now, I’m glad I chose my family first.

We’re fine with money now, but I guess the reason that I’m having such a hard time paying tithing is because we don’t know exactly where it goes and how it is used. Also, learning about some of the “perks” of the GA’s and the relatively tiny portion of the church’s money that actually goes to humanitarian aid(through looking at their financial disclosures for the UK), has just turned me off to it. I know tithing is primarily for buildings, materials, and administrative costs of running the church, but when they spend so much on things that I don’t feel are necessary expenditures, I have a hard time feeling good about giving my money. I’m trying to re-frame my thinking, but so far have been unsuccessful in this area. As a result, I have about four tithing checks that I’ve written out that are just sitting in my checkbook waiting to get turned in.

Old-Timer wrote:

It sounds like you have a wonderful Bishop – and that can make all the difference in the world.

I do have a wonderful bishop. We’ve been in this ward almost a year now and I’ve been very impressed with him.

[MayB]

Such great quotes! Thank you so much for sharing. Sometimes I sit through lessons or talks at church and have felt a bit of guilt that I couldn’t just accept everything on faith alone and leave it at that. My soul seeks truth in all its forms and a more clear understanding of things.

In my lesson on the WoW today, I talked about how the dietary guidelines were being heatedly debated throughout the U.S. and about how it was difficult for the early saints to completely adhere to the WoW because alcohol and tobacco were so widely used and are such addictive substances. I even mentioned how Joseph Smith and some other early prophets continued to consume alcohol or smoke tobacco on occasion. One member came up to me afterward and said they enjoyed the lesson and that they could see how someone who was new to the church or who hadn’t heard those things before could have their faith shaken by knowing them, but that since those in our class are generally quite seasoned in the church it was a very refreshing lesson. For me, knowing the issues in the environment that helped prompt the question and seeing and understanding the difficulties that early saints had with it helps me understand and appreciate it more. The more simplistic, “faith promoting” lessons tend to frustrate me.

[MayB]

I just noticed this today as I was trying to put the finishing touches on my lesson. Glad to see the church putting a little more historical context out there. I’m going to use a couple of excerpts tomorrow in my class.

[MayB]

I just spoke at a RS activity the other night. The topic they gave me was “How to be calm, cool, and collected.” I’m not sure what they were expecting, but I basically spoke about how the only way to live a relatively calm and peaceful life is to truly know and accept ourselves the way God made us and not worry so much about conforming to what outside influences(parents, friends, church, society, etc.) try to tell us we ‘should’ be. I got a bit personal and related my own experience of spending years trying to be what the church leaders and my in-laws wanted me to be and how I finally started to feel peace and happiness when I sought to understand myself and to act according to my individual values, desires, and needs. I finally let go of trying to be the epitome of young Mormon mommydom and began to be myself. Many of the women came up and thanked me afterward for being so honest and said I had given them lots to think about.

Really knowing ourselves is difficult because we are ever changing and developing, but I’m finding it to be liberating and exciting process. 🙂

[MayB]

Ann, thanks for sharing your wonderful perspective. I haven’t been to the temple in quite a while, but when I do return this is something I will remember.

[MayB]

GodisLove wrote:

I know you probably already gave this lesson. I just wanted to mention how great it is you are teaching this class. For every person who might disagree with your “view”, there are probably 10 or more who you have given some “food for thought” through the week and several who think that way already and don’t share.

I don’t comment on here very often. I feel a bit in awe of how everyone is able to articulate their thoughts into such great discussion. I read so much about helping change minds, how wonderful that you are teaching gospel doctrine. What better way to present some of these thoughts in a positive way. I hope your lesson went well.

I serve in Primary and try hard to do my part presenting things in a way that would be how Jesus would do. He loves everyone. You have much tougher lessons than primary, especially this year. I just wanted to say thank you!

I just read this comment. Sorry that I missed it before. When I first started having my little faith transition or whatever you’d like to call it, I had just started teaching this class and I seriously considered asking to be released. But I’m so glad that I’ve stayed.

GodisLove, my lessons may be “tougher”, but yours are equally tough and so important. 🙂

[MayB]

Thanks guys.

wuwei wrote:

I know it’s a different issue from your husband’s, but I think that a little time to let them process coupled with a good demonstration that you still love them and care about them and aren’t becoming a totally different person goes a long way.

It does go a long way. I think now he’s starting to realize that I’m still me and I feel like we’re growing closer together as a result. He offered to study history together too, but I haven’t asked him to. I don’t think it would do anyone any good. He is starting to openly question some things a bit more on his own and I occasionally offer little bits of history that I find when preparing my gospel doctrine lessons that he didn’t know before.

wuwei wrote:

I can love her for her.

Exactly! I’m feeling this too with my husband now. Instead of seeing him as the priesthood holder/leader of our home who should be doing x, y, and z, I’m really seeing him the way he is and loving him more and more everyday. I used to be frustrated that he wasn’t the TBM ideal husband and now I’m so grateful for that.

mackay11 wrote:

By showing respect to me and never pushing any of the history onto my lap, she took the better way. We’ve developed a far stronger relationship as a result.

This is what I’m trying to do and so far it’s going really well and our relationship is most definitely growing. 🙂

[MayB]

Welcome! I too was so excited to find this wonderful place where I feel like I can discuss my struggles, feelings, thoughts, etc. without the fear of being judged. It has helped me tremendously! 🙂

[MayB]

Thanks Ray. That article will be a great resource!

[MayB]

Thanks for all the wonderful ideas and insights. I read through the manual today and found that pretty much everything in there is stuff I don’t really want to focus on. One section even suggests teaching that” obeying the word of wisdom would solve the world’s economic problems.” The logic is that if all the industries producing harmful substances like alcohol or tobacco didn’t exist, then healthcare costs would come down and those resources could be used for “beneficial purposes.” Interesting thought, but not really realistic on a global level, I think.

I love lots of the information that you’ve all contributed here. I’ve got some great things to read and I’m confident I’ll be able to piece together a lesson that might actually inspire some thought and consideration rather than everyone just sitting there hearing the same thing they’ve heard all their lives. I’m thinking of trying to bring the final discussion to how when we care for ourselves, physically and spiritually, we’re more able and prepared to serve others and be examples of Christ.

Once again, so glad I’ve found this site or I probably would have just pulled my hair out when I read the simplistic and sometimes way off things in the manual. 🙄

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