[mczee]

Rob4Hope wrote:

I’ve been married and now divorced, and I know what it feels like to be in a marriage that didn’t work. I would rather be alone then go down that pathway again. So, I will be as picky as I dang well please.

No. Marriage will fix you. Marriage fixes EVERYTHING. Why can’t you just get married? You are too picky! Just trust it will work out. /s

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this. There is this girl I hang out with a lot but we mutually aren’t interested in each other. We get along with each other REALLY well. But we have no chemistry what so ever. No spark what so ever. Over the last couple months I get told by other YSAs “Why are you not dating? You guys would be perfect for each other! I don’t get why you guys aren’t dating.” The thing is that they are completely serious and dismiss me when I say we are mutually not attracted to each other at all. It doesn’t drive me nuts, it’s just a minor annoyance in my life. I’m more fascinated that they think they better than me how the relationship will play out without understanding one thing.

[mczee]

amateurparent wrote:

When I was single and an LDS guy started asking about what I wanted in a spouse within a couple dates, I thought it was time to move on. It was a red flag that he wasn’t interested in “me”. He was looking for a commodity — the typical LDS girl. He was in the marriage market and looking for someone who was “acceptable” and met the criteria of his list.

I wanted someone who was in love with ME. I found him. He didn’t ask me about what I wanted in a spouse. We just dated until we decided we couldn’t stand to ever be apart. He is my best friend, my best lover, my best everything.

Please don’t settle for less. There is nothing better than a good marriage, and nothing worse than a bad one.

I am concerned that you will get the same answer each time you ask LDS girls about what they want in a spouse. When an LDS guy asks the questions you are asking, the is a set dialogue exchange that results. You are asking the typical LDS question. You are going to get the typical LDS answer. Neither party is going to be honest in that exchange.

Maybe ask a girl right after SM to go visit Dear Brother Winchell with you — Instead of attending Sunday School. (Winchell’s always has the best donuts.). Or maybe Dear Brother Enstein for bagels ..

Thank you for your input.

I think you’re right with straight out asking to a degree. People by their nature will be dishonest whether they are unaware of it or not (mostly likely they are unaware of it).

My list is just a board set of values.

1. Honesty

2. Empathy

3. Responsibility (this one might be to vague, still figuring it out)

I would add that on top I how feel around them. That would be the chemistry and compatibility part. I think this small list keep me away from being too picky.

I agree with you but at some point I just need to be VERY clear where their and my values actually lie. I’m not a mind reader. Mind reading is bad for relationships. There needs to be some kind oral agreement that our values align. If they feel the need to dishonest about their values… well… they already breached #1 on my list.

[mczee]

mom3 wrote:

I don’t know where you live but I just returned from hanging out with my daughter in Colorado. Her YA ward has a strong progressive, millennial strain to it. Many still appear to practice orthodoxy, but listening to the comments, reading some face book posts they aren’t so traditional as surface may present. While I was there my daughter and her room mate took me to Dawali – Hindu Festival of Lights, both girls fully participated even placing offerings and praying. Since college my daughter has added midnight mass to her Christmas ritual. She also has a post-Mo dad and Middle Way Mormon Mom – she worries that she won’t find a guy who is comfortable with the situation. It’s similar to your quest – how do you find, love, and connect. Her dad and I keep suggesting men of other faiths. But she will make her way.

Don’t get discouraged, when you consider how many families are going through faith transitions at this time, there are bound to be many children in a similar place to yours. Keep heart.

On a final note, I don’t get the feeling Terryl Givens was ever a traditional believer either and it worked for him.

I’m in Colorado. PM me the ward! My experience has been mostly orthodox mormons.

[mczee]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

That you want a relationship based on mutual love, not on what the other person gets out of it.

That’s honestly the core problem with Mormon marriages: the commoditization of spouses. They do become interchangeable because it’s all about what you, the consumer, wants from your spouse. It does become an extension of the church.

So much depth here. Thank you for the thoughts. I never really thought about commoditization of Mormon marriages. It’s really true and it’s oddly very selfish. I was always taught temple marriages is the purest thing you could do because it was for gods plan.

I also agree that at least giving them the thought will help them. I don’t want them to change their values for me though. They need to do it because they believe it for themselves.

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[mczee]

I just got to put my method into practice tonight. Different girl from my other post. I ask what her values are and what values is she looking for a future spouse. Of course testimony was on top. Then I ask what does that mean? She said temple worthy, priesthood holder, and serves faithful. I inquired about “servings faithfully”. She said serving their calling. I was open how I only home teach when I need to. I don’t even do a lesson when I do. I just let them know I exist and understand their lives. She seem ok with that.

Then I drop the bomb.

“What do you think if your husband had doubts?”

She answered about being being supportive and saying it’s he needs to read and pray. She reel back a bit admitted that she had no idea.

I pointed out that it was #1 on her list. I ask her if she had a husband who left the church that would the relationship had to be “redefined”. She said yes.

So she ask me where was this coming from. I told her about my faith crisis and transition and I feel a need to protect myself from women who expect me to be a extension of the church for them.

She was very understanding and talk about how she didn’t has a perfect testimony and everybody can have a strong testimony. She has family in my position.

So anyways I was happy I opened up. I notice she change her stance a bit but I don’t know if I’m for her still.

I noticed that when she was talking about testimonies the subtext is that my testimony isn’t strong but that’s ok. This tells me she isn’t understanding the situation. By my definition, my testimony is fine. By the church narrative it isn’t. She was doing her best to comfort me how my lack of testimony was ok…. Well this is news to me. It’s a normal narrative to have but it raises red flags. Anyways, I honestly think she did her best to sympathize. It was just coming from the wrong view point.

Anyways I learned a lot from it. It makes me oddly proud of myself and I want to do it again. Weird.

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[mczee]

I’m not saying how the gospel truly is. I’m saying how GA act like it is. Their actions are very telling what they think key is. I’m with you but they sure are not.

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[mczee]

Heber13 wrote:

Let the deep conversations come after 6 or 7 dates or as they bring it up.

This is my exposure to weakness here. I rather do the serious talk sooner than later because I’m afraid ill be to attach and do something a bit irrational. Like justify why it would work in my head but it really wouldn’t work. Being overly attach to people is something I’m working on.

nibbler wrote:

Let’s say your 3 hour block is from 9-12. Try suggesting going on a hike or some other outdoor activity at 10:00AM on Sunday.

See the reaction.

1) Hike!?!?! On a Sunday!?!?! Then you know.

2) Ok we can hike but but that’s during church. Oh yeah, duh. How about 2:00PM? But then you know a little more.

3) Cool, church is boring. Then you buy a ring.

YES. Brilliant!

[mczee]

Unless I’m wrong, I don’t think the gospel says otherwise. So I doubt the GA’s believe it to be non sexual in nature.

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[mczee]

Plan of salvation key component is marriage between a man and a woman and have spirit children. That’s one of the cornerstones of Mormon doctrine. Gay marriage goes completely against that very cornerstone idea of the plan of salvation. You can’t have spirit child if same sex couples. (Maybe spirit baby adoption?) That’s why the church views same sex marriage as sin that’s worst than having sex before marriage and comparable to murder.

I’m not saying agree with it, it’s just how the church views it.

[mczee]

LookingHard wrote:

I think your steps are correct. On #4 (the hard part) I think I would share just a bit and see their reaction. If they are “cool” with it, after a pause expose just a bit more and see. More questions like, “what do you think about people that struggle with doubts”. This last step is sure to be the hard part.

Obviously that question will raise red flags on their part. I think I just need to embrace that’s part of the process and rejection is soon to follow for the better. If it doesn’t raise red flags, then that’s even better.

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[mczee]

I’m so self conscious about it!

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[mczee]

Thank you for your perspective. I’ll try not to be overly critical and show more empathy. There is a lot of pain associated with LDS women in my life and how I’m viewed as a less than worthy person so sometimes I can be very critical.

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[mczee]

Ya, she’s intense. She brings up this stuff often.

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[mczee]

Good point. I’m probably jumping the gun and not inquiring the why.

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[mczee]

Perfect. Thank you. I never viewed it this way.

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