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As I’ve said before, this is an interesting post. You all have discussed many things I’ve never considered before or haven’t considered for a long time.
I feel sorry for anyone who is fearful, nervous or angry about being exposed to new ideas or beliefs.
It doesn’t mean that I agree with it all. But, it sure challenges my ideas & makes me think.
For me, that’s what makes this life interesting & gives it “texture”.
I’ve never liked the “canned” questions & the “canned” answers we sometimes get at church.
Wayfarer, I have to ask a question:
You have obviously put alot of thought into the spiritual side of your life.
How do you reconcile or deal with “the way” & your church experiences? I would find dealing with both of them to be frustrating. With “the way” you are free to explore your spiritual life without (what seems to be) any limitations.
To be fully active in church, we have answer very specific questions.
a. Are you a full tithe payer?
b. Do you keep the WoW?
c. Do you wear your garments day & night?
e. etc.
There are only (2) that directly deal with the role of JC.
I am considering the possibility of becoming active again. Plus, defining what active means for me.
Currently, when I go to church I participate very little to the lessions given. (SS & PH)
The lessons seem to be the same I participated in years ago.
When I come home, I feel angry or a waste of my time.
How do you keep it together without going your “own way”?
If I come back, I want to be honest about it.
I want to feel as though I’m a better person or better follower of JC.
This question is really for everyone.
Again, I hope this is not off topic.
Mike from Milton.
The bigger question is: why do you want to get rebaptized? About who does it, it’s between you & your DH. (Oh & maybe the Bishop. I forgot.)
Mike from Milton.
Welcome aboard Captain. My only advise would to be cautious. If you decide to leave, do it on your own terms when you are absolutely ready.
I will be interested to hear your journey.
Mike from Milton.
wayfarer, you said: Quote:I once came in contact with a recent RM who was trying to proscelyte on a daoist group i moderate. when I introduced him to the scriptures that supported the ‘Way’, and this (as you say) uncorrelated view of god, he really melted down, called me an apostate and most likely shook the dust off of his feet. it was a little disconcerting.
I’m curious, did your contact with the RM just end this way? or did he go to the Bishop?
Can you imagine presenting this topic at a Priesthood meeting or a sacrament talk?
Always curious.
Mike from Milton.
I’m back. When we get to this level of discussion, it seems from my vantage point, we have to be very careful.
I can see where someone reading this for the first time might think, I’m God.
As God, I am not bound by the normal laws & restraints.
Your story about picking up the hitchhiker reminded me of something that happened to a friend many, many years ago.
Back when I was a Seventy, we had a Presidency meeting at our Stake Center.
One of the “guys” came to the meeting late.
He said, he was coming to the meeting on the express way.
He saw a car with a flat tire & felt moved (or inspired) to pull over & give assistance, even though he was running late.
When he got out of the car, the driver pulled out a gun & robbed him.
He felt lucky to get away with his life.
He wondered out load to us why he felt inspired to give assistance & got the exact opposite of what he was expecting.
This story is abbreviated for time. I think you can get the idea.
I know this isn’t unusual. We have to be careful. For one person it is devine inspiration. To another, “I’m lucky to be alive.”
Mike from Milton.
I had to view this video again. I like what he said about: (I hope I’m close to the original quote.) “worshipping God by Loving, not being right.”
“do not be bound by the fears of yesterday.”
“Love wastefully.”
wayfarer, how do you reconcile the end of Joseph Smith’s life with all of his spiritual & mystical experiences?
polygamy, etc.
I’ve been wondered lately, if he was trying to work through the concept or principle that all of us can (or could) be joined as one eternal family.
Not limited by individual & separate families (& marriages). The principles of the law of consecration & the united order would have a different meaning too.
I don’t think that all of JS revelations were given as a blinding light or a pure moment of clarity. Whatever that means.
I think that sometimes it came as an idea that he may have contemplated, prayed about, talked about, then a principle or teaching developed over time.
I hope this hasn’t gone “off topic”.
This has been very interesting. I will think about this for a long time.
Mike from Milton.
You “guys” are giving me a whole new vision of who JS was. I’ve never considered this before. If any of you teach a lesson or give a lecture, please let me know. I would love to attend.
Thank you very much.
Mike from Milton.
A great answer & even better response from your Daughter. I’ll remember this story.
Thanks!
Mike from Milton
Ray, thank you for the offer. We haven’t had the chance to go away by ourselves for sometime. Plus, I think some of our discussions will be rather intense. We haven’t really taken the time to talk about spirtual matters in along time. I have been trying to document the elements of what I really believe. It has been an interesting process. I want to share that with her too. It would be nice to meet you sometime. Thanks again for the offer.
Jamison wrote: “I just don’t feel that spiritual there anymore. When I was younger prior to my divorce I had a great feeling there, now I feel that somehow I have offended heaven and really don’t have that special feeling I once did. I will hear of family members’ extra spiritual experiences at the temple, and sometimes think (TMI) keep it to yourself, I’m not getting those types of experiences, don’t make me feel worse. In my case it isn’t that I don’t feel worthy, I just don’t see the point, or have that intense desire. Right now I want to go to the gym and work out almost every day. My intense desire is to be healthy, and build physical strength since I have always felt like a weakling. I was excited that I have built muscle and I am able to lift more than I could before. Perhaps there is a season under heaven for the temple and a time to go without it. Maybe if my zeal for the temple was as great as working out then I would be fine.”
First, I recently discovered my local gym. I forgot how relaxing a good work out can be. (The whirl pool & steam room helps too.) We sometimes forget how tense the normal daily grind can be. Overtime it can take a toll on our mind, body & spirit. Second, regarding your lack of spiritual experinces at the temple. If the temple doesn’t work, find someplace else. Go to an art museum, a play or concert. This may sound strange, but I discovered God at my local dog park. (Think about it. Dog spelled backwards is…) That’s a joke.
Mike from Milton.
I like everyone’s reply to this post. Herb13, I agree with your 2nd part. My wife & I are addressing this issue at this point in our lives.
Our Christmas gift to each other is a trip to Nauvoo in Jan or Feb ’12. On this trip, we want to do all of the tourist stuff but, the main goal,
is to review (together) where we stand with our beliefs, our Church & our God. Not necessarily in that order.
Our spiritual life should be an on going adventure of discovery. Mine hasn’t been an adventure for a long time. For me, it’s time to make a change.
Let go & Let God, as they say.
BOC (& everyone on this site), best of luck on your journey.
Mike from Milton.
Orson, thank you for the introduction. Very interesting. Many of the questions you have (or had) are not weaknesses. The reality is, our spiritual life is ours to discover. No one will define it for us. I choose to look at it as a great adventure.
It hasn’t always been that way. I hope to hear more from you.
And Captain Conundrum, jump in & give us an introduction.
I would like to hear from you too.
I’m sure you have more to say.
Mike from Milton
Our missionaries were over tonight for dinner, talk & a brief lesson. I always enjoy their enthusiasm & zeal. They seem very innocent. They also seem to be very “unclottered” with worrys of the world.
They have one goal, to teach the gospel.
The doctrine is usually very basic & straight forward.
Very refreshing.
Mike from Milton
An answer to prayer will always be defined on an individual basis. By this I mean: you see or hear a person answer a telephone you know they are communicating with someone you can’t see.
When you see someone offering a prayer don’t immediately know if it was heard much less answered.
I know what you mean when you say:
Quote:Probably the biggest thing in my life I ever needed help with seemed to fall on deaf ears. It sort of burned me on prayer for the future.
I have had the same experience. For me I felt like I was part of a giant kosmic joke. It (frankly) pissed me off.
I didn’t pray for along time. Even today, I do it sporatically.
There have been other times when I didn’t even utter a prayer & felt like God was talking to me.
But again, it was a feeling. I don’t think God has to speak to you face to face to receive a direct answer.
I received an answer to a prayer about marrying my wife, in a dream. I was very clear & I remember it to this day. This kind of answer is rare for me.
Most of the time maybe the answer is: “be still, wait & listen. While you’re waiting, here’s some peace”.
My two cents.
Mike from Milton.
