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It is interesting to consider the leadership styles of other churches & religions. Most Prodestant churches seem to have weak leadership at the top & no enforcement of rules & regs.
As a Methodist, I can never remember anyone being excommunicated. Or at least, they didn’t announce it.
The Catholic church seems to have a strong top leadership & little (or selective) enforcement of the rules.
The Evangelical churches usually have strong top leadership & strict belief system & I assume enforcement.
For the LDS church, we seemed to start with JS saying “I teach them correct principles & they govern themselves”.
Currently, we have to have tithing settlement & temple interviews to receive the fulness of the gospel.
My guess is: over time, as a church grows & doctrine becomes more complicated, the top leadership makes a series of decisions about
control. Do we want to control? To what degree? & How do we enforce control?
I wonder if the church does “cost benefit (type) analysis” to determine what areas of the world are best serviced by our Missionaries?
Areas where the missionaries would have the most success. For example: high areas of Prodestant population 1st, Catholics 2nd & all others 3rd.
Am I being too stereo typical?
I think I have too much time on my hands.
Mike from Milton.
I’ve been reading “Jesus the Christ” again. I like the way Talmage writes & lays events in chronological order. He compares different records to the same event, etc. He has alot of notes & footnotes for additional information.
I wanted to start with the life of Christ before rereading the BOM or the other scriptures.
Sometimes, I think we focus too much on JS & his writing. In the process we can lose focus of who we worship.
That frustrates me more then anything else at church.
Does anyone have problems with “Jesus the Christ” or James Talmage?
Mike from Milton.
ferfun, thank you for your honesty. I’m sorry for the abuse you suffered. I know your story will help others as well. I’m sure we were told in the pre-existenance that this life wasn’t going to be easy.
Some of this stuff is beyond belief sometimes. It’s a good thing I’m not in control.
Keep writing.
Mike from Milton.
This is a great topic, especially for this time of year. When I ask myself this question, I think about when I was a child & went to Sunday school in the Methodist church. One of the songs we sang was: “Jesus Loves me”. I remember the feeling I had singing it. It was different than any other feeling. Maybe it was my first spiritual experience. I also remember when I investigated the LDS church. We would go to sacrament meeting & there were about 30 – 40 people attending. They sang like there were 100 or more. With real feeling. I remember having the opportunity to sing in a church choir at the dedication of the Washington DC temple. It felt like I was floating. I am currently reading “Jesus the Christ” again & I get more understanding about who he is & the role he plays in the gospel plan. I look in the faces of my children & now my grand-children with a sense of complete wonder at the story of creation & now I’m apart of it. Maybe I’m a bit naive. My life isn’t perfect & never will be. But for some reason, the life of Jesus makes complete sense. When I look at it logically, it shouldn’t.
Why would any Father allow his son to be a sacrifice for me? Much less the world.
For me it’s a series of feeling that tells me that Jesus Christ is true. I don’t always understand it but, I feel it & accept it.
Maybe if I had been born a Muslim or Jewish, it would of been different.
For what it’s worth.
Mike from Milton.
Brown, For what it’s worth, I sent you a Private Message.
I hope it helps. If it doesn’t, delete it.
Mike from Milton
Brown, help me understand what you said in your last posting. Can you expand it, please? You said…
Quote:But there is no other aspect of our lives than the church. According to doctrine, it’s really the only thing that matters.
For me, the focus of my life is Jesus Christ. The church is a means or tool for me to understand & get closer to what He (God & JC) wants me to do.
I’m trying to understand your focus & if it has changed as a result of your experience from the 1st posting above.
Are we missing something?
Mike from Milton.
GBSmith, I agree with your statement where you say… Quote:I’ve found the only safe thing to say is that you’re sorry for their loss. If you try to do more or try and make sense of someone’s dying whethere it’s a newborn or or a 90+ year old, you’re going to say the wrong thing.
The other thing that might happen when you have a personal crisis and get silence.
For example, if you might go the Bishop or Professional Councellor with a personal problem. You want personal insight or other spiritual answers & they have nothing to offer. It would be better if they said…”let’s meet in a week to discuss this further”. Or, in the case of a friend…”let’s go to lunch next week”. That would give a person time to reflect on the situation even do “research” the topic. Anything that is thoughtfully considered before the response is better than silence (or empty words) in the moment.
Mike from Milton.
I know that moments like this are heartbreaking at the time. But, these moments provide us a GREAT opportunity to connect with our children in a meaningful way. You handled it just right. I know that your discussion with her will last for along time. It’s moments like this that reveals to our children what we really believe. She will probably remember this more than any Family Home Evening lession you’ll give her. There are times like this that reveal who our children are becoming. They actually listen to a talk given in church, critically review what was said, then apply what they believe to be true, then discuss it with a parent. That’s what we are suppose to do. We are surprised when it happens at the tender age of 9. I, for one, hope you get many more questions like this.
Excellent! Give her a kiss.
Mike from Milton.
If the church had a paid clergy just think of the consequences. The leadership coming from a business backround. Your would have to have: 1. A Job Description for Bishop.
2. Annual performance reviews.
3. Special courses & degrees at BYU for the paid clergy.
4. Written goals & metrics beyond what we have today.
5. Priesthood would be like an Amway meeting. To fire up the troops.
6. Succession plans, etc.
If this sounds too sarcastic, please delete.
Mike from Milton.
Back in the olden days, when I did home teaching, there were a couple of families where I took my Golden Retriever as my companion. I wonder what the leadership would say if they knew that. There is one family that stills remembers those visits & liked it because they had small children. They would listen better when the lesson involved Molly. Plus, our dog was very friendly.
SD, My Milton is in the US. If you want to know where send me a PM.
Mike from Milton.
ps. Sometimes it’s better to ask forgiveness then it is to ask permission.
SD, where is this ward? I would like to attend. In my opinion, there needs to be more room for personal inspiration & creativity.
Maybe it would keep us awake in the morning & the rest of the week.
It would keep us from being less critical of others too.
Mike from Milton.
wayfarer, I agree with what you said. Especially:
Quote:My lesson learned: if I don’t want or need church discipline, then don’t confess to the church. There is no reason to confess private matters to the church. If you’ve gone public with the sin, or if it’s one of the big 4, that is another matter. And if it’s apostasy for which you want to be punished, submit your resignation and save everyone a lot of grief.
I have given confessions to:
1. My Sponser in AA.
2. Very close friends. (Including my current Home Teacher.)
3. My Bishop.
4. Professional Councelor.
The best results came from #1 & 2.
What I want from my confession is: insight & encouragement.
I’ve already beaten myself as soon as I’ve reached this point.
Once I did write a letter to my Bishop asking to have my name removed.
I met with him & he talked me out of it. That probably doesn’t happen very often.
The only qualities I look for is: (This is important to me.)
1. Can he (she) keep a confidence?
2. Does he (she) have the life experiences that I respect & admire?
Some of these people are not in the church.
One considers himself an athiest.
Another is a Muslim.
Another is Jewish.
For what it’s worth.
Mike from Milton.
This is going to sound trite so get ready. I know with certainty that I am Loved. More than I probably deserve.
I see it everytime I am greeted by my Grandchildren, Children, Inlaws & Wife.
I feel it everytime I contemplate my relationship with my God.
It maybe hasn’t always been that way.
But for today at 10pm, Dec 12, 2010 it is.
Mike from Milton.
