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mom3, I’m trying to get a better understanding about the message it contains.
I thought that I would use a Mormon “academic” first.
Its been awhile since I’ve read it too.
Thanks for your help.
Mike from Milton.
Roy posted: Quote:I believe that Martin Luther felt that there should be a state church and that it should be financed from tax revenues. How’s that for an alternative?
I’ve been to Finland where they have a state church. Attendance & participation is very low. The tax revenues collected entitles the members to free Baptisms, Marriages & Funerals. Such a deal!
Mike from Milton.
I don’t think I made myself clear. What I’m trying to say is: based on my personal life experiences since I was baptised, the role of the HG has been at the extremes.
High when things are going well & Low (or absent) when they’re not.
When it first happened, I wanted the same experience as JS did (D&C 121). “My son, peace be unto thy soul…”.
Iam beginning to believe that the extremes in my life, are not very realistic.
Iam beginning to see that God (or HG) can speak to me in a small voice at the most unexpected time.
Usually not at Church.
I’m doing my part to work through this.
But, it’s been a bitch. With a Big “B”.
Mike from Milton.
I have seen similar styles of fan charts before. The technology seems to improve every year. Mike from Milton.
This is an issue that I’ve been trying to answer of a number of years. It seems to be key for why I became inactive.
I joined the church as an adult. My 1st experience with the HG came during the investigation process. I didn’t serve a FT mission. I have served as a Stake Missionary several times plus a 70’s President & Ward Mission Leader, etc. We were as successful as the FT missionaries.
Through the investigation process, missionary work, teaching work, temple work, some fast meetings, I clearly remember feeling the influence of the HG. It started in my chest & I had feelings that radiated throughout my body. I never had that in the Methodist church.
If it were a testimony meeting or teaching an investigator, I had to get to my feet or bare my testimony in a very personal way or sit quietly & let it envelop me. It’s hard to describe to someone who hasn’t experienced it.
Next, I want to refer you to my introduction dated: 21 Sep 2011. Titled: “This feels like my last chance.”
I make reference to my daughter from my 1st marriage & the circumstances of that situation.
I won’t go into details. But, it is similar to what you read about at Penn State.
In trying to deal with that situation, it felt like everything spiritual slipped away. I felt like I was in darkness & the gospel was a huge practical joke. I basically felt numb. My hope was I could go to the Bishop or other members & they could help be through this experience.
The more I worked at it, the more I felt alone. That’s when the drinking started. Then it seemed to get worse. Drinking makes everything worse.
I’ve been in recovery for 21+ years. From time to time I do have the feelings of spiritual awakenings. It has been slow. But the spiritual feelings are sporatic. Never to the same degree as the 1st paragraph above. I do get comfort from D&C121, 1-10.
I want God to talk to me like he did to JS in verse 7.
I didn’t mean to bring this discussion down.
For what it’s worth.
Mike from Milton.
Thanks wayfarer, I think I understand why I can make it through Sacrament meetings but have a hard time with SS & PH meetings. Mike from Milton
wayfarer wrote: Quote:The point is that there are a lot of reasons for which ‘zero’ is an acceptable, full tithe, and it’s none of anybody’s business what the personal circumstances are.I have known people who have gone bankrupt, lived on welfare, food stamps, support payments, etc & paid ‘zero’ tithing. It was acceptable to the church & they received the full benefits as a President of a Corporation who paid 10% on the gross. Without sounding too political, it sounds like a “flat” tax. I’m sorry. I couldn’t help myself.
My last point is, for the many years I’ve been inactive, no one has come to our house to preach “damnation” because we weren’t active or tithe payers. Maybe they should of. I’m glad they didn’t. The question that I have is: if I decide to become active again, how do I repent? How would I ever make restitution for the years I didn’t tithe?
Interesting topic. One you could never raise in church.
Mike from Milton.
SilentDawning posted:
Quote:…I can’t seem to get past a cycle of boredom to re-evaluation to boredom to re-evaluation. Now, a personality test I took recently put Ideation (a love of ideas and creativity) at the top of my list of dominant thought patterns. Consistency, on the other hand — the love of routine and repetition — is in the bottom quartile.
I too have a love of ideas & creativity but there are times I get really burned out. For me, the Temple calmed me down & gave me a chance to relax, focus & contemplate more spiritual issues that I couldn’t on the “outside”. Especially in the Celestial Room. Everyone is dressed the same. There is very little talking. There are no sounds from the outside world. There is no distinction or rank between members.
For a moment, at least, we’re all the same.
I miss it.
Mike from Milton.
I like this posting too. In it he states:
Quote:One recent study shows that nearly 1/5 of boys and nearly 1/3 of girls in the United States have had a sexual encounter of some kind with an adult by the time they reach high school. The rates are much higher in less developed countries.
Are these statistics true? Are they really this high?
Would this be true within the church too?
More later.
Mike from Milton.
Wayfarer, I agree with everything you said. Especially:
Quote:4. what i like most is the silence. in the highest room, there are no words, only pure spirit, if you allow that to enter your heart.
5. consequently, for me, (similar to ray’s comment) it is best to empty the mind of any preconceived notions about it, to go with openness, and to receive whatever you find of use at the time, leaving aside things, for now, seem troubling or incomprehensible. allow the richness of the ritual to fill you, without getting caught up in the baggage.
i enjoy the temple for a lot of reasons, none of them really logical.
With my inactivity, that is the most I miss about not attending the temple.
Mike from Milton.
DevilsAdvocate, I agree with your statement completely. I wouldn’t want to change a word.
Mike from Milton.
This posting really has me thinking alot. I woke early this morning & the first thought that comes to mind is this:
Quote:“The only path to true and lasting joy is through repentance and service”
Is it possible that this is wrong? Instead of “service” maybe for me it’s “Simply acts of kindness”.
The reason this comes up is: yesterday was my wife’s birthday. All day, relatives & members of the ward called to wish her a happy birthday. Our Home Teach came over with (2) of his daughters to sing happy birthday to her & gave her flowers. That moment will last for a long time in my mind.
I don’t have alot of happy memories of doing Home Teaching. The ones I do remember are those I did a service for. Such as unplugging a drain pipe or changing locks on a door. I can still remember how I felt when someone said, months later, “thanks again for fixing my drain pipe”. No one said, “Thanks for that lesson on tithing”.
Sometimes words have a negative meaning for us. Service doesn’t have to be a formal calling, office or special lesson taught.
That’s my two cents for today,
Mike from Milton.
Wonderingcurrent, please come back when you’re ready. I get alot our of your postings. God Bless,
Mike from Milton.
I had some lasting joy this weekend, holding my (6) week old grandson. He’s named after me. It doesn’t get more joyful than that.
I will be playing with my (2) grand-daughters this afternoon. More lasting Joy.
Mike from Milton.
I find this very sad that we have to be so careful about expressing our views, opinions or even asking questions in church. I applaud anyone who has the strength to honestly communicate themselves. I, for one, don’t say anything unless someone says something to me first. How did develop? My wife is a graduate of BYU. We get the alumi magazine on a regular basis. Back in the ’70’s, I would enjoy reading the letters to the editor because there would always be someone who commented on an article written in the previous issue. I always enjoyed that because it gave me a view or opinion that I never considered when I read it the first time. I doesn’t mean that I agreed, but it was interesting see another side to the topic presented. It isn’t there anymore. That was the best part of the magazine.
I think it is a real weakness when we feel threaten by someone elses opinion or we feel threaten to express our own.
Regardless what the topic is.
Mike from Milton.
