[Minyan Man]

I think I’ve found how I’m going to approach this. Instead of focusing on

Quote:

the covenant path

, I’m going

to focus on

Quote:

finding joy in making & keeping covenants

The gospel is not a check list of tasks to be

performed in this life. Also, none of us do it exactly the same way. This life is not a contest to be performed to see

who won or lost the race.

When I’m done with the final draft, I’ll try to share it with you.

Thanks everyone!

[Minyan Man]

nibbler, I am not comfortable changing the subject at this time. I have done it in the past and it worked out well. The Bishopric

knew me & trusted me. The reason I don’t feel comfortable now is because we just moved into a new ward 6 weeks ago.

They really don’t know us yet & we don’t know them. I do feel comfortable weaving my unorthodox views into the talk without

offending anyone. (I hope.) It is a small town (22,000) that revolves around a state college and close to Nauvoo IL. There are

factions of the community that seem very conservative. We’ll see overtime.

I am considering an introduction that tries to define what the Covenant Path is. There is a talk by a GA that does that. It is:

Quote:

What is the covenant path? It is the one path that leads to the celestial kingdom of God. We embark upon the path at the

gate of baptism and the “press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and

of all men. The two great commandments to the end.” Matt 22: 36-40

I want to cut out: It is the one path that leads to

the celestial kingdom

Is it fair to do that? Or, I can modify it to my own definition using similar verbiage. I won’t credit the GA with the quote.

It’s still a work in progress.

[Minyan Man]

Roy wrote:

…The experience was jarring to me because even though I have been to church only a few times in the last six months, I was still identified as an authority figure on the subject because I am demonstrably male by someone who spends all their time living and breathing church teachings.

Roy, I’m not sure that the sister Missionaries identified you as an “authority figure” on this subject as much as someone they identified as

someone who is open & easy to talk to. Assuming that is true, that’s a wonderful quality to have. Keep in up.

[Minyan Man]

nibbler wrote:

I too have only had very superficial relationships with all the bishops and branch presidents I’ve ever had. Most never going beyond an occasional friendly wave in the hallway.

…That could be a double-edged sword. On the one hand it could be an opportunity for a bishop to get to know people better but on the other hand it could be used by some to go out exploring beyond the current boundaries of the interview. Those boundaries are there for a reason.

I’m all for a bishop becoming more acquainted with his flock but I think the setting of a temple recommend interview wouldn’t be the time for it. It’s far too formal a meeting where the power dynamic doesn’t have both parties on equal footing.

I wouldn’t mind seeing the tithing declaration meeting repurposed to do what you describe. Drop the talk about tithing, drop any hint at the meeting being about any kind of evaluation whatsoever, make it a pure meet and greet. I know many bishops already do that as a part of the tithing declaration meeting but I mean make the whole meeting be nothing but that. No talk of tithing or any other motive other than an opportunity for the bishop to get to know people better.

nibbler, I agree completely. The area I would challenge a little bit is: all relationships are a double-edged sword. There are some Bishops

were I’ve had a great relationship with. There are others I knew right from the first meeting, I would never have a close relationship with.

[Minyan Man]

Thank you!

[Minyan Man]

nibbler, where did you get the Elder Uchtdorf quote? I would like to read the full article, talk or book.

I enjoy & get insight in everything he talks about.

Thanks!

[Minyan Man]

I’ve been thinking about how emotion plays into our spiritual growth. Or, the lack of growth.

The particular emotion for me is anger.

My lesson from my spiritual challenge was that anger is more than a negative emotion. It prevented me from

returning to God or the lesson he wanted me to learn. My experience seems so small or insignificant today

compared to the experiences of other people I’ve met. One of my neighbors was in a concentration camp

during WWII. His outward spirit was very happy & outgoing.

All I can think about today is: God please protect me from myself. (anger)

I find it interesting the emphasis placed by the church on the issues (questions) asked about in the temple

recommend interview. None of the questions ask about our personal relationships with God, others or ourselves.

I know time is limited. In the long term, I don’t think that I’ve ever had a personal relationship with any of

my Bishops or SP’s over many years. It has been very superficial.

I read somewhere that the purpose of the interview is to ensure that members are spiritually prepared to enter

the temple. If all they do is ask the standardized questions, it seems like opportunities are lost to get to really

know the members on a more personal level.

[Minyan Man]

Pres Uchtdorf gave a great talk during the last General Conference about Grace.

Here is the link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/the-gift-of-grace?lang=eng#kicker1

He is one of my favorites.

[Minyan Man]

The other thing I wanted to mention is: if Joseph Smith somehow made up the Book of Mormon imagine the Chutzpah.

If you’re wondering, the definition of Chutzpah:

Chutzpah is a Hebrew word that has been adopted into Yiddish and then English. Chutzpah has

been defined as audacity, insolence, impudence, gall, brazen nerve, effrontery, incredible guts, presumption and arrogance.

Yet something essential about chutzpah is missing from all these words.

I can’t imagine doing something like that & it is lasting this long without credible challenges. Maybe I just don’t know what the

credible challenges are or have been.

[Minyan Man]

Personally, my approach & belief of the scriptures is:

1st the NT.

2nd the BOM.

3rd the OT.

4th everything else.

I don’t like to admit that I’m skeptical when I read scripture. There seems to be many contradictions between the OT & the NT.

This from a God that is supposed to be omnipotent, unchanging & loving.

My feeling is anything that brings me closer to Jesus Christ is scripture. I hope that makes sense.

[Minyan Man]

I agree with Old-Timer. IMO it doesn’t feel like the intentions of a loving God to create a gulf

between the generations of time like that.

[Minyan Man]

Recently, a member called me & wanted to talk. This is a person I’ve known for almost 30 years. He is a recovering

alcoholic (for many years) and challenged in many other ways that I won’t detail here. He lives many miles from the

chapel, doesn’t drive & would have to take the bus for church on Sunday. The FT missionaries came over to talk to

him & one particular Elder asked about his life & asked why he didn’t go to church or the temple or other activities.

He thought he should be more active & didn’t hesitate to tell him.

He then went on to tell him that he wasn’t living up the covenants he made at baptism or in the temple.

(This was done in the 1st visit they had with him.) The Missionary went on to tell him that he personally was living up

to all his covenants & doing everything he could to be Christ like. And when he looked in the mirror, he (the Missionary) saw

in his own reflection the countenance of Christ. Oh, the arrogance of youth.

I’m glad my friend called me & we had a long, long talk.

This one example that all of us can find as members of the church. My hope is that we don’t extrapolate or generally define all

members the same way. In this one example, I’m glad that my friend called me & we could talk it through. I talked to him again

today & he has worked through this one experience. When this happens to me, I hope I could be as understanding.

[Minyan Man]

A quick “welcome” & thank you for joining our group.

The church as a whole wants to believe that we have all the “truth”. Rarely do we admit that we don’t have a clue.

For me, my focus concerning my faith is: Jesus Christ & JC alone.

Joseph Smith, historical events & individual personalities are a very low priority. I try to live by the philosophy,

Quote:

take what you can use & leave the rest

.

I would like to write more but, we are in the process of moving.

[Minyan Man]

kotm, I understand what you are saying. There are certain people at church I don’t associate with. There are others I like very much.

These are the people I normally associate with. If I don’t see them, I miss them. I think that’s true of other aspects of my life.

Work, neighborhood & community organizations.

Human interaction & associations are complicated & interesting at the same time.

[Minyan Man]

Just a follow up, we received a ward bulletin today, there was no mention of her death.

It seems a little cold. Maybe I’m too sensitive.

Another side note: she has been attending our ward every week for years & paying a full tithe even though

she wasn’t a member. I find it very interesting.

[Author]

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