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I have to say, I am really surprised by the amount of attention this subject has received. There is no judgement, just surprise.
I recently saw a show on TV that is part of a series called “The Curious case of…”. The episode I saw was called: “The Curious case of Jodi Hildebrandt”. She was a licensed counselor used by the church to do family counseling, etc.
Here is a summary of her life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodi_Hildebrandt If you have the chance to see this episode, I recommend it. This is an extreme example of how religious beliefs can be
distorted & migrate into our (LDS) culture.
It still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Another principle that is difficult to understand has to do with coming to earth after forgetting the pre-existence and not being able to use what we learned there. I probably said this before, if I am
repeating myself please forgive me.
In this life, we learn more complicated principles after we learn the basics. For example, we develop basic math skills before
the more complicated problems are introduced. You have to know addition, subtraction, multiplication & division before you
understand algorithms, etc.
Aren’t the principles we learned in the pre-existence important to build upon the principles in this life? I know, we are supposed to
learn with faith. It just feels like we are repeating, in this life, the lessons we learned in the previous. Maybe in the next life, we
will forget what happened in this life? And on it goes throughout eternity?
I think a lot of you have worked this out for yourselves. I’m still trying to make sense of it all.
Old-Timer, I have read & reread your post over the past few months. It is one of the best I’ve read since being on this site. You have summed up the mission of JC &
the mission of this website. Jesus Christ is the center of everything and in the end, we want
to return.
I’ve said this before & I’ll say it again: I wish you, me & others on this site were in the same Sunday School class.
I’m curious, what kind of comments did you receive after your talk?
TruthIsLDSOnly! said the following. I want to understand what you said so I organized it as follows. If I miss represented anything you said, please let us know.
TruthIsLDSOnly! said the following in response to the question: Does the gospel really change lives?
Quote:I would have to say Yes actually…
1. Temple work and your covenants you make there in absolutely do 100% without a doubt because you make a covenant with the Lord to be a servant to him and sacrifice to him your worldly thoughts that you’re ability to look past all judgment…
2. and truly give to one another that means love one another unconditionally and not judge one another when you can truly do that and love your fellow man without any thought what that person has done or what that person is going through and truly give to that person when you can do that you will find true 100% change in yourself when you can stop looking at your fellow man and stop caring about everything that that person has gone through and love them unconditionally you will find your world has completely changed…
3. when you can truly look at somebody like Jesus does you will find the true gospel you have to learn the true meaning of sacrifice in order to find the gospel I cannot count the people that I know and I go to the temple everyday and I still cannot count on my hand how many people I know personally but know the true meaning of sacrifice that’s the key to it all when you can tell me that you have truly sacrifice something or you know the meaning of the word sacrifice you will know the true meaning of the Gospel you cannot do it halfway you have to do it 100% you must commit yourself you must give of yourself…
4. you must learn that when you sit down to pray and you can’t sit there for a good 20 minutes after you prayed to listen for the answer then you have not learned how to pray there’s so much more to everything that is the gospel it’s not just a book it’s not just about Christ it’s more than that you got to think about it Christ lived how many years ago and yet he’s still influencing the world today it’s like I heard it once said the Bible will be either the best selling novel ever or the biggest hoax Christ lived how many hundreds of years ago however long ago it was and yet he still is one of the biggest key people ever he’s still influences every one of our lives today.
5. We still build temples we still build churches just so we can learn of him and pray to the Lord so that’s got to count for something right when we go to the temple we go and do endowment sessions we go and do ceiling sessions why because it matters there’s more to it of course but we can’t speak at that because it’s not secret it’s sacred we do baptisms for the dead because in order for us to become perfect we need to do that work so that they can become perfect they tie us to him it says so in the D&C the thing is is that if you listen to one of the talks by elder bednar he talks about how he finds his funny but people will sit there and write down everything he says during general conference why it’ll be in transcript 20 minutes from when he says it we need to learn to silence our minds and listen for what the holy spirit says to us we need to learn to be okay with being alone so that we can hear what the Lord has for us he speaks to us all the time but yet…
6. none of us are quiet enough to hear it because we’re too busy with outwardly worldly influences and yet you ask if the gospels true or if it changes lives really have you sat back quietly enough to listen to the answer to that question have you silenced your mind enough to actually listen for the answer to that question I urge you to maybe go to the temple if your temple worthy or even if you’re not sit on the temple grounds quietly in your car or under a tree and just meditate for a moment on that question and think about it have you sacrificed your time to sit there for a moment and think about that question is the gospel really changing lives and I bet you you will hear the answer to that question I mean if you think about it how many temples are on the planet today and that right there should give you an answer of yeah it does change lives…
7. I know for me that the power of the temple has changed my life dramatically I don’t know this is just one person’s opinion on this question I love going to the temple it’s the only place that I feel needed wanted respected and loved and it’s not about the names that I’m doing or the people that I’m doing work for because I know that they love me because they’ve chosen me to do their work it’s about the fact that I have been alone my entire life my family and I don’t get along we don’t speak for whatever reason family Dynamics what have you I chose to go a rough route but you know what no one in the temple…
8. not one ordinance worker has judged me because of my past because it’s not my present and it’s not who I was it’s who I am and without their love I would not be here today and I am grateful for that and I love every one of them for being open to the fact that I suffer from the most severe panic attacks ever and I suffer from fear of people but without them I wouldn’t be able to leave my home where I have been a victim of trapped by my own mind and I would be lost without them and they have dramatically changed my life for the good so yeah the gospel does change people’s lives and sacrifice does change people’s lives and I say this in the name of Jesus Christ! AMEN!
My understanding to your response to this question “Does the gospel really change lives?” is:
1. Temple work / Temple Covenants
2. Love one another
3. Follow example of Jesus Christ
4. Prayer
5. Building Temples (Growth of the Church)
6. Listen for answers to prayer.
7. Temple
8. Examples of others (No Judgement)
Do I understand you correctly? I hope I’m not oversimplifying your post.
I miss that type of discussion & lesson. With the combined PH lessons, there are very few HP in the class on Sunday. To be totally honest. I am one of them. I especially avoid the class where we form groups. We read a “canned” lesson or talk.
We discuss the “canned” questions. Elect a spokesman. Present our “canned” conclusions.
There is very little discussion about what the PH is today. There is very little discussions about our duties & responsibilities.
Or, visiting & blessing the sick, etc.
The only reason I brought it up was because my Wife recorded a conversation she had with my Mother before her death. This was before familysearch.org came into existence. After my Mother died I listened to her interview again. I became
active with FS & found that you could load record to an individual’s record. So, for me it was an experiment to see how
it was done. Now her voice is out there until FS is gone. I wish I could of had the opportunity to hear my Grandparents
voices. They all died either before I was born or shortly after. Now, all of them are a mystery to me & our posterity.
None of them were in the church. But, they did have life experiences that I wish I understood better. For example,
how did they maneuver through the depression, WWII, what was their life like immigrating to the US?
How did they get through some of their biggest challenges in life? What place did their faith play in getting these
challenges? (They were Catholic & Methodist)
But, to hear from their own voices would of been special to me.
Even though it’s not part of a funeral, you may want to consider recording your life story in your own words & put it on your personal record in Family Search.
Your ancestors will not only hear your story but hear your own voice for years to come.
SD, I have a question: Did you just “spring” the request on your friend or did you give him the chance think it over? If you are as close as you said, maybe he would have a hard time getting through it. I personally would be afraid that
I would get too emotional.
SD, you are a well-organized person. I am not. I have been thinking about this same topic for myself lately. I haven’t come up with anything that is permanent yet. The only thing I would add is, leave time for people to
talk & reminisce. The last close funeral I went to was my Mother’s.
My Mother was in her 80’s & her death was not unexpected. At the funeral, we had a lot of relatives, neighbors &
friends. Some we hadn’t seen in a long time. One person that showed up was a friend of my Father. My Dad passed
away 20 yrs earlier. This man knew my Dad in high school and, at the time, lived next door. Needless to say, my
Father’s family is a mystery to us. This man told us stories about that side of our family that we hadn’t heard before.
A few weeks after the funeral, we met with the man & he gave us a tour of where they lived, the schools they attended
and shared stories about our Grandparents that we hadn’t heard before. This all happened because we are not very
organized with my Mother’s funeral.
Also, just for grins, I would probably add a Stephen King book to my table of books.
Bishop, I’m glad you joined our group. It gives our discussions a whole new perspective & understanding. To give you some background of who we are. Some of us have:
. lost children through miscarriage, cancer, accidents or suicide.
. gone through a divorce.
– gone through other rejections in life.
. lost family when we joined the church.
. lost jobs.
. suffered health &/or financial problems or issues.
. experienced a child who went through physical or sexual abuse.
. have questions about scriptures, church history or gospel teachings.
. have questions regarding doctrine.
. etc.
Many of us who have joined the conversation have found this to be a safe place to discuss our issues & gain insights
without judgement.
I personally joined the church when I was a senior in college. After joining the church, I held various callings,
got married in the temple, etc. All the practices & beliefs that made us fully participating members in the church.
I personally believed that if we did all things we were taught, believed & practiced, we would be protected when the
hard times came. If we didn’t have protection than inspiration & spiritual support, knowledge or enlightenment.
When I went through my challenges, I prayed about them, I went to my Bishop & I talked with friends that I knew.
Nothing seemed to help. I would go to church & everything seemed black. Some of what I was experiencing could probably
be diagnosed as depression. What I’m trying to say is: going to church & staying active seemed to make it worse.
I think my problem accepting what we were going through is what I now describe as the Joseph Smith formula for receiving
answers to prayer. Which includes the following:
. go to your own sacred grove.
. ask your prayer.
. God will answer & give comfort.
. You move on knowing God answers prayers & gives comfort.
. You are better off from the experience.
I know now that this is a very naive approach & belief.
It took time (years) to work through my pain with the help of my Home Teacher, at the time.
In the process of working through this challenge I’ve learned the following:
. I will never be the same person I was before my Faith Crisis (FC).
. I’m open to other ideas & beliefs.
. I’m not as judgmental as I was before my FC.
. Obedience is hard in the face of a FC.
. I’m beginning to believe that this is the way God wants the process to work. (For me anyway.)
Rqatkins wrote:
…As a Bishop myself, I appreciate this thread overall. Love should always come first. Obedience is a learned byproduct of testimony building and our reason to be here on earth. We all go at our own pace.When we are fully committed to Striving to be obedient, then we progress. I reserve judgement in all things based on that individual. We have guidelines to follow, to set a standard (which are there for a reason) but there is flexibility more and more in the church to understand and follow the spirit of the law while striving for obedience.
I should of be clearer in my post. The reasons I like to read Fiona & Terryl Givens can be summarized in their latest book: All Things New. I recently started reading it. They described the book as
Quote:Retinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between
.
I like to be challenged in my beliefs about faith & religion. This book seems to do that. When I first heard about the LDS church & the
gospel, I was challenged in my beliefs from the Methodist church. I didn’t accept the teachings of the Missionaries right away.
I don’t automatically accept the teachings from the church today. IMO. We should constantly be challenging ourselves through self discovery.
Plus, if the church is true, they should be able to accept questions & the challenges. I wish it carried over to the lessons in SS & PH.
All of the books by the Givens are footnoted so you can see the source of their ideas & thoughts.
I hope this makes sense.
Rqatkins, I am very diplomatic when it comes to gospel topics & personal relations in my ward. We have been in the same ward for over 50 years. We are known within the Stake as well. I have volunteered to give talks about the topics I haven’t
heard in a while. I our ward, talks are assigned based on GC talks. There is very little latitude to go off the topic assigned.
Also, my calling in the ward is Family History. I love doing the work & I get inspiration from doing it. I would love to pass it
on. In the past 5+ yrs, I can’t remember a talk in Sacrament meeting, priesthood or Sunday school that focused on FH.
I’ve talked to the Bishop, his Counselors & Elders Quorum presidency with no response. That’s fine. It’s their call.
It is frustrating sometimes.
Bishop, I understand what you’re saying.
For me personally, the Bishop is not the only element that sets the tone for any given ward. You can have a Bishop that is the perfect example of what a Priesthood holder should represent.
And the rest of the Ward goes in the opposite direction.
We’ve lived in the same Ward for over 50+ years. We’ve seen good & bad examples on both sides.
I’ve wondered how the membership of my Ward has judged me over the years.
Life is interesting.
