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Talking about “bishop wannabe’s” we have a guy in our ward who honestly changes his vocal delivery when he is speaking over the pulpit and he sounds like Jeffrey Holland. Seriously if you closed your eyes when he is using the pulpit be it for a prayer, talk, testimony, conducting it’s Brother Jeffrey. Then if you just talk to him in the hall he’s normal. He does wear a dark suit, the full thing every week.
Kumahito- I agree greatly with you. They really have little choice but to go slow. I have a friend in my ward who really would crash if something like your confession took place. Her childhood was marred by parents with addictions, the church and it’s culture are her rock. If the underpinnings of that rock and the goals it has helped her create were gone, then life would seem hopeless. It would mean that working to improve had no purpose and might as well just head down the road her parents had already been on. To quote scripture, “like a dog to it’s vomit.”
To be honest I would crumble for her if that happened. I am just fine adjusting my learning than to hand her a blow like that. Now I know it could be debated that her living with this imagined religion is just as unfair, because someday she would face the disappointment, but I believe in life’s unique benevolence, whether it comes directly from God or the energy that directs souls, and for her the rigidness of Mormonism has given her so much, it would be cruel to rob her of a life source just to suit me.
I am glad the next few decades decisions aren’t mine.
DB – I love this. I know you’ve been chatting with Sundance and others. We are very hopeful for you. Ray has a post just yesterday that talks about how the guys at the top are doing. (Reference Q12 thread). Anyway the conclusion we all come to is that okay – the top brass seem to keep alluding to their understanding but somehow the water isn’t making it down the rows. I wish you tons of success. If after reading Mike’s point (and it is a good one to consider) perhaps you should start the training by passing out copies of Terryl Givens letter to unbelievers and the other one. Some other Bishop/Stake Leader gave a similar talk in California about it. Not that these are perfect answers but it may validate your points and keep them from shutting down your thoughts.
Good Luck – Keep us updated. Oh and wear a blue shirt
Hi eman, I guess I would qualify as a traditional practicing spouse. To remain a complete TBM seems nearly impossible. Not because you don’t desire it, but because eventually you have to learn a new way of looking at things. Faceseast can be very helpful and I know 2 or 3 others who cross post here and there.
Your wife is in a very strangulated space depending on many situations – most of them external from you. There is no short cut or quick way through it, especially if one spouse chooses or feels safe in the faith. We often dubs it “The Stroke”. It helped us clarify what we could change and what we couldn’t. That alone took time. Patience and personal peace on your end will help a lot.
Db- I loved his Mormon Stories podcast. I was a huge Truman Madsen fan, and have missed him. Terryl Givens is quickly taking over that space. I know they are not synonomous but both of them could describe the gospel I saw better than anyone. I remember listening to Truman Madsen one time explain how gospel art doesn’t do justice to events. Anyway – I am so glad Givens book was published and sold through Deseret Book. I am hoping it will be a better bridge than anything yet presented between traditional practicing members and liahona type members. We all could use the healing it could produce. Mercy and Grace – I’m in the same boat. It’s my husbands Christmas present. I have to wait in line.
I am sorry to hear about that stuff, using the church to get deals or take advantage, but I think it’s more indicative of clans or groups. I spend a lot of time with evangelicals, and they do the same things. Connect up with believers, check if your a believer, keep an eye out, etc. My guess is – it’s more related to the poorer side of human nature – and can be found in lots of areas. It’s still wretched when it happens. When I get asked about my stance in the church I like to reply, “I am a 3rd Nephi 18:22-25, Alma 33, 11th article of faith gal.” I don’t get to say it often, but I do try to reference these in public discourse because I believe the repetition will begin to re kindle the far reaching potential of the church as it moves forward.
I also like to push the envelope on the 3rd Nephi passage with the comment that we love to recite – “I will go and do the things which the Lord hath
commanded. Verse 25 the Savior states that verses 22-24 are a commandment, he also points out how he practices this himself. I have also decided that if I expect the church to be a certain way – then I better be that way myself – inwardly and outwardly. I find that hard because I love to fix “latter-day saint” things.
Clearly I have a ways to go before I exemplify my stance.
Ray and Mackay- Can either of you get document supports for those quotes, ideas. I keep stuff like that in my scriptures to use at purposeful times.
Thanks
Thanks Dash for hunting up the thread. The challenge I see is that Margaret Young may well have the entire story correct, but we are 40 years post the experience and if anything the church leaders hold the trump card on how the garment is to be worn. Because it is specified before and in the recommend interview process, it over rides any other opinion, unless you choose to keep your selection of how and when you were the garment to yourself. I do find it interesting that 40 years have passed and this subject hasn’t been touched again. Years ago as a nieve young women I didn’t realize that garments weren’t supposed to be seen. One day in young women’s someone went off complaining about some store in our mall that no longer had separate dressing rooms for the fitting room. It was just locker room style. During the lesson it was driven home the importance of not letting anyone see them. Now today they play peek-a-boo under shorts all summer. Sad what this world has become
🙄 Ray – According to my mom who was the Stake YW President at the time of the change – the original intent had cancelled all mid week meetings. When Stake and local leaders heard that they cried foul. When the General Presidencies visited in area trainings the Stake leaders gave them an ear full, explaining that completely cancelling the meetings would be detrimental, that we needed socialization and non-religious nourishment. During the meetings the General Presidencies stood firm in the position that “the Lord wanted it this way”. However a month or so later, the letters were changed and those two areas were re established. My mom is a stalwart member but she has always worn a badge of honor for her part in effecting change in a global church. She was one of the vocal Stake leaders. I guess I get my spine from her.
