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My husband was listening to this on his drive home last night. I don’t think he’s finished but he was excited by the topic. Thanks for covering it. Ditto to everything said before. A couple of things to add from personal knowledge. My mom lived in Hollywood CA and as a child was invited to a movie audition with Bob Hope. Her parents remained there all their lives. We visited them often and attended church and so on. We knew people or saw actors in the wards there regularly. But the industry has changed. The first person that comes to mind is Gordon Jump, yes I know deceased, but there were roles he could play and still enjoy activity. Two or three cast members of Lawrence Welk were active LDS. Remember Sandy, Gayle and Merrylou. Sandy was LDS as could be. There are others who either joined the church or were active and could still particpate as active members.
In short I think all of our conjectures are accurate. The two worlds no longer cross each other enough. Judgement on both sides paralyzes the ability. Performers then must choose. I think until we follow the Evangelical style and make our own TV channel and generic Christian style movies it’s hard to expect LDS actors to become a reality. Right now it is easier to be a Christian Actor than a Mormon Actor.
Mike- You may get an extra dunking but I don’t think so. Alot of that duplication is being sorted out since we have computer access and realize that everyone did grandpa’s work for him. Often they now double check it before they let you print it or use it. It doesn’t take long and it saves everyone. So as long as your records haven’t changed. Your probably safe. But don’t worry if you get a double dunk you can feel right at home with the early Saints who deliberately got rebaptized. It was a brief practice a few of them enjoyed.
I’m going to double post here since these thoughts were separate and my other post was long. I wanted to address the Praise To The Man issue. First I sense where and how the song can stick in your throat. You know when everyone else is singing it with all their gusto that they picture a flawless man in a soft blue coat gazing into the horizon. And once the picture becomes less polished it makes it hard to shout Hallelujah.
If you don’t mind though, I’ve come to think of it another way.
Whether good or bad, flawless or fallible, Joseph Smith died an untimely death by an assassin. Often we mortals experience an intense response to that. Just look at Abraham Lincoln and John Kennedy. At the time of both of their deaths they were not beloved. It was rumored that Kennedy wouldn’t win re-election. America had lost faith in the man. But his death and the morbid events that caused it pushed him to a greatness he may have never achieved. The images burned painfully in our minds brought something unexpected to the forefront. Though no hymns were written for him, his works and images became land marks for everyone. His PT109 story was the stuff heroes are made of . His Profiles in Courage continue to be the go to book for leadership. All this from a bullet. Lincoln’s untimely death was very similar. The south still didn’t love him, no matter how we would like to imagine it. And the north had questions. But that bullet shifted many peoples feelings toward him.
In the American West this band of people experienced something similar. The hymn itself was written by a man who once hated Joseph Smith. Of anyone who could decide to mourn or vilify Smith, Phelps was close to number one. In his grief he wrote a song. The song is now an anthem. Why it didn’t get lost in history I don’t know. Other songs written for the saints did. For me I take a deep breath and try to remember what those left behind might have felt. They lived it. They lived with Joseph. How much they knew, we may never know, but like other leaders his death was a beacon for them. The song was their anthem of hope.
I have not decided what Joseph would think of it. Some of his final addresses would make it seem like he would be thrilled to have his own hymn. But other parts of him lead me to believe differently. For all the ego that we suppose he had I have found it intriguing that he rarely preached from the book “he wrote”. Many of his addresses were platforms from the bible. Especially Paul. I don’t read of meetings that began with “As KIng Benjamin taught us” or “Like Nephi of old”. From my vantage point I would expect an egotistical soul to pulpit pound his magnum opus. Yes he never rejected it, he testified of it’s origin, and his conviction of it, but it wasn’t his platform. Something else was. So for me Praise to the Man is a hymn I hum or sing in remembrance of bands of people who crossed oceans, deserts, and mountains in the hope of something deep that burned in their hearts.
Weighing In on Joseph Smith-These are a few random thoughts. First of all adapting perspective, like the BCC author did, happen often in our lives when we do it with big history it can be very challenging. This same author probably held a different opinion at one time, and I am willing to bet may even abandon this opinion in time.
I tend to support Bushmans point about judging history. It’s a tricky subject with abundant points of view and the present day person really has only a limited scope of knowledge – even full time historians. For me when I run across the confusing or disappointing stuff I try to take a step back and play history comparison analogies. One of these happened yesterday for me. (I hope this won’t run too long).
My son takes an online high school. I sit with him during the teacher lectures so we can get a good overview for the week. In his history class they were discussing the Japanese Interment in WW2. The presentation was slanted to point out how awful this was. (Don’t misunderstand I don’t believe in rounding up people and I can see great hurt that went into it). As I listened I was really struggling. My mom was just 10 days shy of her first birthday when Pearl Harbor was bombed. Her caucasin family lived in Southern California. My grandmother often told me about the day and the events after it. Because she was alive and living close to it, she remembered the fear, the confusion, the uncertainty Pearl Harbor had created. In the days which followed with all the unknown in front of them American leadership made a decision. Maybe it was reactionary, from our point of view now it was, in that moment they felt they needed to act for further protection. Eleven years ago we all lived through the experience of 9/11. Time has already shifted our initial opinions. As a nation we announced our solidarity, grief, and resolve through stickers that said, “These colors don’t fade.” School kids nationwide pulled out their red, white and blue clothes to wear to school. Congress was quick to support a presidential plan to respond to our attackers. As I say now just a decade beyond it things don’t seem as clear. And all of us lived through it. What will historians and others judge this time as in 50, 60, 175 years.
This brings me back to Joseph. I can only understand snippets of frontier life. I have to add a whole bunch of guesses as to what it felt like, or who did what to whom. Or what Josephs nature really was. Right now in my life I have a lot of images to choose from. None of them complete. So for me I have decided to wait on my judgement of Joseph. I have chosen to let the scripture that says, “let the Lord judge between me and thee and reward thee (in this case Joseph) according to thy deeds.”
So formatting for me just gives me another option on the table.
I may be starting some great legend or fable here, but I believe I recall a stake president explaining the keys issue and his thoughts on the HPG not having keys had to do with the brethren in that group. Active and release Bishops are in the group. The active trump, if it were a card game, the released are often still called Bishop (I’ve heard why but I can’t remember). Also you have functioning and life time Patriarchs in that group. And so the various “keys” kind of outweigh the others. In Elders Quorum no one else with “keys” exist in the room. If I’m remembering correctly still, this same stake president mentioned that the Deacons Quorum President has keys which his adult leaders do not have. Making him the true quorum leader. Same with teachers, the priests keys are held by the Bishop. Anyway thats what I recall. I have no references to back it up just memories of a prior conversation. But it makes sense to me in a way.
I read it yesterday and was pondering on it this morning. I won’t post any thoughts just yet. I’ll give others a chance to read it. I’ll check back later today and comment. Mike- I’ve thought about your post all night. My opinion hasn’t changed. Point of view often helps. The Bishop looks at the ward and his job and sees needs to be filled. Filling those needs are important to keep the ward moving along. Whether a calling is truly inspired or just a good match, it helps.
Anonymous service is always good. Is it possible for you to be at peace with a standard calling and still be able to do anonymous service. There are no requirements against doing that. The Bishop can know from calling you and you accepting that things are covered. While you can fulfill your desire. There is no reason in my mind to choose one or the othe
I may be wrong, but I believe that your style of using the manual as a jumping off point is fine. I do agree that many of our manuals could use an overhaul or at least a stronger note of encouragement to step beyond what is on the page (again without going into those deep mysteries). As I see it one of the challenges is time. We are lay teachers. Many of us “get called” and we do what we can with what time and insights are available to us. I can’t think of how many times I have heard a teacher express that they really started studying once they received this calling. So in perspective, they will begin with what is in front of them. Once that time has been put in they move on in their day. CES teachers on the other hand often make a career or multiple years teaching they get time to find new stuff, try to present something meatier or learn more for themselves.
For those of us who have been scriptorians or historians we can add to those conversations. I try, if I find a parallel scripture to raise my hand and add it. Sometimes it opens up discussion, sometimes the teacher really wants to finish what they prepared. New topics throw things.
So yes new manuals could help, but only if we rotated them often because the same cycle for teaching will always exist, in my opinion.
P.S. I hold nothing against teachers. Lay ministry helps us grow. But all things that help us grow are rough and unfinished.
First off I have still have no idea how to quote so – Roy I agree with you last paragraph. As a person who struggles with “Savior Syndrome” as I call it. We women do tend to feel that somehow we did or didn’t do it right. I actually began to loosen my grip on that idea when I read, “All Rain No Mud” by Sharon Larson. Sharon Larson is the sister of Ardeth Kapp, former General Young Women’s President. Sharon was also a counselor in one of the General Presidencies at the time she wrote the book. As a mom she had two children. One who remained close to the family and the church. The other did not. Sharon wrote, that after much struggle she realized that the coercing, pleading, and negotiating with the “lost” child was actually the adversary’s style. And the achieving any result under that might not be best.
I read that, I looked at her status and began to see another way. It is still hard not to want certain results, especially if your personal convictions validate the choice you want from someone. But even the best anyones, Mom’s especially, can’t fix it, no matter how much they love, care, even perform their job with perfection. Personal Agency still trumps. The only individual I can give direct “support” to me is me.
But it is hard to let go because sometimes too many people fall when one does.
I’ll second Hebers interpretation. The people of Alma could no longer pray the traditional prayer. They chose to carry a prayer in their hearts. I imagine if we stood at the judgement and “pray without ceasing” was on the list and you answered I prayed in my heart, sharing my day with you. I think he would see that as fulfilling. I find I pray multiple ways and have for years. I write them, I talk to Him as I drive along, I sometimes sigh and say, “thank you” especially at a particularly scenic view or peaceful feeling. Many of them don’t begin “Dear Heavenly Father.” Many of them do. I feel like he hears them all and enjoys them with me. That’s my two cents.
Thanks everyone. I’ve copied a bunch off. I keep them tucked in my scriptures for those unexpected moments in church when a perfect quote can change the conversation. A couple more thoughts, mostly on the paid clergy or professional speaker, I love the CES, big name speaker rotation every once in a while. Question is who would select who that speaker was. My husband was a seminary teacher and we attended a lot of the big-wig trainings and there is an element of pride in the group. Or if they sent around apologists who just made your hair stand on end. It may not go so well. The idea is good, but it could use some tweaking, but I like it. I’ll never be a Bishop, but if I was one I might step out on a limb and contact other enjoyable LDS speakers in the area to talk just to freshen things up. On the paid people that SD is suggesting – I get what you mean. I grew up in a ward of successful business men and women. We were top notch in organization, planning, and carrying out activities. We were also very competitive. That fired our bellies like nothing else could. I agree so much more life skills can come from that. On the flip side I now live in a highly Evangelical area. Many of my closest friends are members of various congregations. We have attended their services and there are definitely more charismatic, energized, expressive pulpit moments in their meetings. I have noticed though when people don’t like a pastor they move. Either to a different congregation or different time like Saturday, or they find reasons to be more flexible. From this migratory pattern I gather we as human beings are not often satisfied even when we have trained professionals in our midst.
After watching these developments I find myself calling my ward my community. Some Sundays I connect deeply with a speaker or topic. Others I choose to pray, worship and observe others and see if I can connect in a personal way with them after the meeting. Even if it’s just a hello. I try to remember that Christ taught the pharisees that the purpose of the day was to glorify God.
