Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Thanks for reminding us of our skepticism. That is a human struggle. We are all myopic by nature and forget to think more often than we should. It also helps to remember that there are others who know what you know or most of it and still find deep value and testimony in the LDS church. We really wish you Godspeed on your mission. Forgive me turning this upside down. I agree with the blog post but I also often wondered if the Savior also meant for those of us who struggle with the pharisees to also treat them as we would want to be treated. I think that is the hardest job. For me it is often easier and more comfortable to love the less than perfect. It’s the others I have trouble with. The command though was to love all – even those who despitefully use and persecute us.
The premise though is inspiring to look at everyone and see the Savior in them. Great reminder before I head to church.
I’ve always loved Alma 33 for an answer to prayer. When I read it I sense that yes there are formal ways, places, and such for prayer. But more important is that effort to pray. It talks about worshipping and praying in a myriad of places. In houses, out in the field, before thine enemies, in thy closet, etc. As I see it Zenos isn’t talking about kneeling formal prayers as much as those heartfelt, meditation, mental desire prayers. For me I find I pray in the car as I drive. Just turn the radio off and begin a dialogue. I pray, discuss, plead in the grocery store. I prayed tonight as I road home from an outdoor movie. I write out my prayers. These are my most penetrating communications and I always love the results. I also pray more formally each day. Is there a point? For me there is. Prayer has been my lifeline in so many instances, even if it is just to feel that I can reach out to the divine and not be rejected.
I have faith in tithing. That said I had a friend who I don’t doubt was faithful in paying tithing. They were genuinely devout in all areas of mormonism. She had been RS pres, was serving in YW pres. Her husband was HP leader. Suddenly he lost his job. In fact the company closed it’s doors while he was out of state at a conference they sent him too. The Bishop was actually the one to call and tell them the company closed. My friends husband had a masters degree. He was loyal, responsible – he was a manager, etc. This happened four years ago. Since then he has been in and out of 3 or 4 jobs. Had to relocate twice. I shared this as a reminder that yes it does rain and shine on everyone.
Good luck at work and with your pondering.
I never served a mission. Two things that I do share with missionaries are a couple of Prophet mission stories. My intent is to help them feel less guilt. 1st – Pres. McKay had a wonderful mission but according to Greg Prince, President McKay had tried numerous times to pray to get a witness of the church. None came. He served his mission because his parents felt it would be a good experience for him. It wasn’t that they twisted his arm, but he trusted them. He served a wonderful mission, returned home and did much to improve the image of the church as he moved into his prophetic role.
2nd – When you get discouraged remember that President Hinckley wanted to come home from his mission. It was the depression, his family farm could have used him and the money his mission was costing. His dad encouraged him to “forget yourself” and get to work. Missions were different then, but he learned to love new people, new places, even new challenges. Those lessons served him and the church well later in life.
So go out enjoy. Enjoy the people, the country side, the pain, walk everyday with the Savior and your experience will be rewarding – now and in the future.
Thanks for popping by. I was just wondering about you and jwald last night. I really am glad you are finding peace. I hope all the reconcilliations and healings happen for everyone in your family. You are in our thoughts always. A few years ago I realized I would often say to people, “I’m praying for you” or something along the same line. Ten minutes later I forgot I said it, even though I was totally sincere at the time. When I realized it I started making an effort to actually pray for them or their issue. It isn’t quite a serviceable, but I felt more genuine when I did say it. Beautiful talk. I even went and re-read Concern for the One. Thank you for sharing your vision and testimony with us. I’m glad to be included in your ward. I have a hundred thoughts on this topic. Hopefully I will condense them well. Ranked seating also has purpose. Yes maybe it can be done differently (and I have seen it done) but even in business meetings, conferences and so on (all non-LDS) you usually have people up on the stage/stand who conduct, organize, represent, etc. To me it is the attitude that makes the ranking issue. I remember teaching this very parable/lesson in seminary and feeling as I read the account in the scriptures that it again was this idea of hypocrisy. Where the rich or ranked forever had the head seat and lined up people accordingly. We do release, rearrange, and change who sits in the chairs. To me their style makes the difference. In reference to GA’s and their off camera persona, that is the hardest for us to see them as real when they are in conference or conducting a meeting, but like the examples given I know they do have more down to earth sides. One time we had Elder Dellenbaugh of the Seventy for Stake Conference. Our SP and his “team” were fanatical in their adherence to image. Who sat where, said what, etc. Anyway. my husband and I both held stake leadership positions and so we were invited to the luncheon between sessions. Everything was stiff and formal. We were on parade. Ironically my husband ended up sitting across for Elder D. during lunch. The guy was super down to earth. Politely listened to our dog and pony presentations, etc. When lunch was finished he noticed the table center pieces – home canned produce. So Mormon. He says to my husband, how about we try these pickles. To the total chagrin of SP and team, this GA/Seventy opened the jar, stuck in his fork, ate one passed it to my husband, and invited everyone to partake. From where I sat I could see the SP and his councilors, when the jar came to them they refused. From the looks on their faces they were appalled by this “guest”- in that warm, human moment he fell in rank in their eyes.
As I said before I have a couple of other stories like that but I’ll save them. To me the rank is really in the eyes/heart of the person sitting in that seat.
Our previous SP used to always sit on the stand. He actually used to make his entrance at just the right time so we could see him walking to the stand. Our present SP always sits quietly in a back row, very unassuming. It always makes me smile to see him hiding back there. I have a couple of experiences that I use as good mile markers for blessings. The first happened a couple years ago. In a former ward we had a man who was ill for a long time. I believe he was on life-support. The family asked the Bishop to give him a blessing and send him home. As I recall the Bishop prayed all day for guidance. During the blessing he said what came to his mind. He blessed the man with the power to make the decision on his own. Eventually the man lived. I really liked learning that the Bishop did what he felt from his prayers not just a commanded blessing. Which brings me to the second one (but it was really the first). I am a believer in priesthood blessings, but I have also been cautioned repeatedly not to over use the gift. However when I was much younger I had a surgery that wasn’t healing like I wanted. I had had two different blessings promising me that I would be healed. But it wasn’t happening on my time. I really was afraid I was not going to get better. I had an impression to call my Bishop. We talked on the phone he told me I could meet with him the next evening. When I got there he explained that he had fasted all day, and he kept having an impression of a scripture story. He went ahead and told me the story. Already I was sensing I wasn’t getting what I wanted. I was right. In his blessing he blessed me with courage. I was ticked. I was mad at everyone – especially God. Earlier in the day I had told my mom I was sure I would be healed just like the woman who touched Jesus robes. I was convinced that I deserved it, especially after I had been promised in two previous blessings to be healed.
I went to bed mad. A strange thing happened when I slept – I remembered scripture passages I had forgotten from my youth. The next day the passages or the parts of passages kept turning in my head. I decided to sit down and look them up. Each of them were passages of encouragement. As I let them soak in my anger turned. I realized my expectations really were the problem. And that I really did need courage the recovery was meant to be painful. It was a necessary life lesson. Eventually, after much personal effort I did become healed – I needed to be a part of it.
With both of these I was reminded that if I truly believe in God then I need to look for his guidance. Sometimes it comes in blessings, sometimes it comes in strength, sometimes he lets things run for a while because the lessons I will learn will benefit and be a blessing.
Thanks for starting this thread I hadn’t thought of these two events in a long time. Great reminder for me.
Great discussion everyone. A couple of personal thoughts. History and it’s validation depends on so much. Take for example our own American Revolution. As Americans we have been raised with the glory of our conquest. That war was our birth, it sets the stage for how we progress. We’re rugged, individualists, etc. In British history it is nearly overlooked. Not even a blip on their historic scale. That is a shock to many Americans. Shouldn’t this event be paramount. It is for us. So which is right or who is right? Was it a big deal or not. Another part to consider when we try to determine the TRUTH about history is the present day requirements for qualifying history. In the simple case between B.H. Roberts History of the Church and say Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling. In 1890 when B.H. Roberts work was completed the academic qualifiers of history look to be different. Any source was valid, it didn’t need a certain amount of supporting documentation. Today – scholarship demands a different objective. Bushman has said that he had to have sources that had second source support. This to shifts some of the history.
Finally – believing history, whether religious or not, is a leap of faith. I am an amateur historian. As you comb through things you find diverging information. As a writer you have to work with those and make decisions, a lot goes into those decisions, the writer has to select a point of view or premise to complete his work. None of us will ever have the time to look at every account or paper. We are at the hope and mercy of those who write. And maybe if it was up to us we would find something someone else never saw. Was it hidden no – but their objective took them past that or they couldn’t put it into that thesis – so it would wait for someone else. I believe that’s why Leonard Arrington and Dean Jessee both stood by the idea that their testimonies weren’t hinged on history alone. So can we know the Truth of History – maybe, maybe not. But we can use it like others have stated to help us frame our own truth or validate our own feelings.
In Believeing HistoryBushman implies that Joseph struggled with the polygamy revelation. Joseph clearly recalled Jacobs admonition against anything like polygamy. Joseph also did love Emma. The lack of children may have come from this struggle. Could he have been trying to straddle two commandments from God. It is also very possible that he was busy. It’s hard for us as readers to imagine how intense the early church period was-for good and for bad. Along with constant migration, community reestablishment, jail and court time. Not to mention trying to study languages, re-translate the bible and so on. Time to be with anyone was probably lacking. Brigham Young had more time to increase his posterity. One final thought. Joseph and Emma lost children. Though they had others maybe Joseph was reluctant to risk that pain again. There really is just so much we don’t know. Which leaves us with only speculation.
