Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Orson- I agree on the exclusive authority portion. Even when an authority figure speaks we all hear what we need/desire to hear. For some what they hear is directly applicable. For others it’s a good reminder, example, suggestion. Like you I have trust in the intent of the leaders. Some may direct it different than I might. My use of an authority name or reference is to bridge the discussion. If an authority uses a reference that helps with my point and softens the idea – which then allows us all safe passage.
Again thanks for the topic, and your experiences they really encouraged me today.
Orson – Uplifting and useful topic. Before I knew about StayLDS/NOM type people I found myself doing the things you suggest. I was lucky I watched some very astute women perform the act of “polite disagreement” in Relief Society. They were an example to me before I realized how deep the water would be. In nearly all the situations I’ve encountered it really works, because no matter what the general conference definition of “cafeteria mormon” was – there are more people in the church who have gently differing tunes. They just don’t know how to play them.
One tip I have also added to my arsenal of gentle rebuttal is to use supporting statements from scripture, past prophets/leaders, “authorized places”, even explaining something that has changed i.e. how church auxillieries functioned before the present block style. That also helps.
Lastly I listen during conference for references to ideas I support. For instance this past conference Dallin Oaks in his talk used the word vision to describe the image Aron Ralston had before he chose to amputate his arm. That’s a talking point I can use to suggest that God reveals to many types of people. I noted that one of the speakers referenced the book American Grace- A religious study. In fact he called it landmark book. There again you add the D&C reference to studying out of the best of books – and you can lay a case for a point of view.
In conclusion. I am not trying to be sneaky. I study the gospel and mormonism to enrich my spiritual life. I see many honest, Christlike ways to help grow the conversation. Maybe my ideas can help others. Thanks again Orson. I loved the topic.
My comments are just thoughts. I’ve lived my entire life in the church. I’ve watched my callings and other peoples come and go. A couple of interesting things I learned. There are people who love their callings and I don’t think it’s merely a righteous, building of the kingdom only desire. I think the callings are gratifying on some personal level. We have a man in our present bishopric who has served in ward leadership for some 16+ years. He’s been Young Men’s president, Elders Quorum President, High Priest group leader, now the bishopric. These were consecutive. He’s not a dynamic guy – just kind of mediocre in presentation. Nothing strong either way. But I think he actually likes the “opportunity to get away”. I come to this conclusion because his wife was my laurel advisor years ago. At the time advisors were encouraged to come to Wednesday night activities. Every week she would drag her 3 kids in their pajamas to activity night. She would be torn during the evening between caring for the kids and being apart of Young Womens. When I asked her about it she mentioned that Wednesday night was her husbands night to go the shooting range. I’ve watched them over the years. They appear to be the Utopian Ensign cover family. She supports, sustains, he leads in his dark suit. She’s at the pulpit every testimony meeting. From all appearance – him being overworked is a good thing. It may keep their lives afloat.
On another note I had a counselor in one of my presidencies who was to be released because her husband was called to leadership. She was so upset. Her biggest gripe was the release meant she lost her “girls night out” time that she had when we had meetings, etc to attend. Having the calling allowed her a purpose to get out, to mingle, etc. Again I don’t know how that worked, if he made her feel guilty or if she made going out guilty, but the calling provided the guilt free answer.
In short I don’t think every “over called” person feels over called. I have family members who love to be busy. It really does give them purpose. And I know as a leader I can easily desire to have someone who wants to give 180 to a calling. It relieves a lot of leadership struggle. It is such a hard call. There was a talk once in general conference, about ten years ago, that addressed the responsibility of the “callee” to pray about the calling. The speaker even said the “callee” had the option to answer yes or no. The talk didn’t get repeated often. I will look it up, but I remember our bishop at the time used it as a reminder to us to not pressure people. So some of local leaders get it, some have to staff wards, some see serving as a multiple opportunity. In short we each have to answer the Lord ourselves.
I picked up MBM from a poster on the NewOrderMormon site. I may not have used it properly. I actually struggle with the titles/acronyms we have created. We apply them in an all encompassing manner, but for everyone of them there are exceptions. I choose More Believing Member because TBM seems to be applied with the indication that the member is blind, sheepled, etc. If I got it wrong – sorry. Thanks for asking for clarification.
doug wrote:Welcome! I absolutely love the
Great Brainbooks, by the way, but don’t know much about Fitzgerald.
Doug I invite you visit my website and blog on Mr. Fitzgerald. I spent many years reading, writing, geneolizing (is that really a word), traveling to Price, corresponding with living relatives and friends. It was a blast. Because of my research I was invited to speak at BYU in a panel discussion on his works. I gained even more insight about myself and people’s perceptions of the church from it. Anyway the address arehttp://www.findingfitzgerald.blogspot.com/ andhttp://www.findingfitzgerald.com .Thanks again. Enjoy.
Feel free to post it if you think it would help. That is what I hope to bring to this forum is hope and help. Thanks Hawkgirl for reading it and enjoying it. Ray – I will let you decide if you want to post it. It’s accurate – but long winded. Thanks for welcoming me. I think perhaps – in time the two could get along. Will it take a while, yes. Is it impossible no. In my mind some of the choice for that success or improved outcome may come from us. I am the TBM/MBM of my relationship. I also know I presently have the benefit of being miles away from family and that they only know a little bit of my husbands struggle. I also know they have assumptions as to what it is. I also choose carefully what I say because I love both sides. I value both points of view. I may not succeed but I am willing to work to build a bridge. Here some things I’ve used over the years with people from both walks-
1. Don’t download your entire knowledge base. Carefully select a thoughtful singular item.
2. When you deliver the information choose carefully the tone and words you use to deliver it. All of us love an inspirational insight. Try to present the idea as an “idea”.
3. When communicating with LDS people use their resources as your resource. For instance – the eleventh article of faith.
It’s hard for a committed member to respond, and if delivered using #1 and #2 you might open up their hearts and minds. Maybe not in that moment but over time.
4. Last of all if you can help them feel loved – no matter if they do the same for you- you will be living The Golden Rule to it’s fullest (references to Karen Armstrong’s book about God). And love really can break down barriers.
A small example of how I have used this recently happened during RS two weeks ago when we were talking about WoW. My husband and I have been seminary teachers for 5 years. My life of church talks had afforded me a reliable platform as an authority on WoW. I used the open door carefully. I even made fun of myself by stating “Wow you consider me an authority – this could be fun.” Everyone laughed, but it helped them be more relaxed. I then went into it’s entire history with out animosity. Just orderly information. After I spoke the lesson moved on. Somewhere in the lesson the “big questions” of green tea, etc. came up. It bantered back and forth, then I raised my hand and gently said, “We need to be careful. Not everyone has the same knowledge or experience. We also need to know that different cultures use items differently.” I then shared a couple of stories about Pres. McKay and his experiences with rum cake, and island culture drinks. (Because I referenced him it helped my point be taken credibly and without offense.) My final play of the day came with alcohol. Somehow energy drinks, coffee, etc. were in the discussion. I again waited. At what seemed a good time. I raised my hand and explained that coffee was a staple on the pioneer wagons. Also that Elder B.H. Roberts wrote in his landmark series “The History of The Church” (which Dallin Oaks references and has read) the Joseph Smith drank port to calm his nerves in Carthage jail. There was a bit of silence after that, but I also noticed a few heads nodding.
I have 3 or 4 more of these types of examples that I have tried to use in building (and that is my desire) is to build the relationships between the 2 worlds. I believe in the possibility enough to try. I don’t expect to change a GA, but I can help the little world I am in.
