[mormom]

I was composing a response to Ray (TCF, among other things) got distracted when almost done, didn’t save the draft and lost it and now I have to go get dressed in pastels to sing in the Stake Choir at Stake Conference tonight, so I will try to redo it later tonight. I want to just do it now, but will jam myself up. TTYL

[mormom]

It took me a bit to find the talk, called “Mothers Who Know” not “Women Who Know” and I read it. I read it calmly, and truthfully, it didn’t make me mad, and I’m sure she is a very nice person, but those mothers she describes — I don’t think so. I think we all have the best of intentions and do the best we can by our children, but there is more to it than that. If I had had to live the life she describes, although I certainly did live parts of it — well, it’s not my style and I won’t apologize for it. I won’t get specific, but — nope. I am a mother, and I know many things. Talks like this one are the reason I usually skip church on Mother’s Day. I don’t want to be unkind or name names because we are all friends here and if there is anyplace we can be honest and feel safe in doing so, it should be here — but these “Mothers” sound much more like some male ideal than any sort of model most females I know would aspire to or be capable of pulling off, for long. Not to that degree. Maybe I am wrong.

Anyway, I am one mother who knows I would never have been able to live the life she has described and have no regrets about this choice. My children are a mixed bag. I could not be more proud of them, and I don’t believe for a minute they would have tolerated the vacuum tube existence described in this talk. One size fits all is simply not realistic. I may not agree with all of the choices my children have made but I would never go back and change our lives. I know they appreciate that. We were an active church attending, FHE having, family prayer saying, dinner together with a blessing, no r-rated movies or late night tv type of family, way into the youngest’s early teens, but our outside activies covered more than Disney movies together, ward parties, firesides, and pot lucks. I won’t go on.

Expecting most human 21st century women to read or listen to this talk and do anything but feel guilty, get mad, or just feel relieved is expecting too much. I’m sure she’s a nice lady. I bet she only has one hole in each ear, too. Those women walking many miles in their best clothes with their brushed and scrubbed kids are doing their best. I did my best, but I doubt either of us would hold up against this model on a 24/7 basis. This should not even be a suggestion for much of the earth’s population. Is this a universal church? I have said enough.

I still don’t think I am angry. Probably, I’m more bewildered that any thinking person could read/listen to — that talk and not feel at least astonished or dismayed that is was approved for worldwide consumption. I don’t think this opinion will change, even if I reread it several times. I will end by saying I am not criticizing anyone who would like to attempt to aspire to her description. I salute them and believe if that is their choice, they should go for it. I can’t help but wonder if they wouldn’t be setting them selves up for disappointment, though. Maybe I am missing something. Its a beautiful, big, diverse, spectacular place, this earth, and there are things I thought (still think) I might miss. I was not and will never be willing to pass them and it never occurred to me to deny my children wholesome, non religious themed experiences. Doesn’t make me better or worse than these, so called, “Mothers Who Know” — just different. Some people like chocolate, some like vanilla, some like rocky road. It just the way we roll.

Maybe Sister Beck is a great lady, but she this one should have been thought through a bit more. Just one humble opinion.

[mormom]

Katzpur — I will order the book, read it, and send it on with copies of the two conference talks (after I have read them) and the scripture from Samuel. Thank you for your suggestions and for taking the time.

[mormom]

To Roy — I am sorry about your daughter. I lost a grown son in an car accident. He was nineteen. It shakes you to your core. My daughter and son in law also lost a son. He drowned. He was five. We are very close, and I understand their vigilance. I just don’t think they understand why I don’t just step up, why I focus on my inactive sons’ positive traits rather than spending all of my energy praying they will repent, come back, or whatever. I won’t start again.

I would never try to teach my grandchildren something behind their backs! I was talking about maybe bringing the Samuel scripture up for discussion, at their house, at their family home evening, or possibly the two talks that were quoted a few posts back. I would give it all to them, or at least to my daughter who knows him well enough to judge for both of them, to read first, if they were even willing to let me give the lesson, which they might not be. My daughter knows I am okay, just wishes I were a bit more or less something or other. Same with her husband. They are good parents. They are devoted. I guess they just wish I was a little more RS. Hope springs eternal. I am more interested in them giving me some credit, or just relaxing and not always worrying about how open- minded I am. I voted for OBama! Now if that isn’t proof there is something wrong with me, I don’t know what is? I don’t want to change them, just want them to stop wishing I would change. The description of your approach to raising a family sounded very much like my daughter and her husband, and I sure do appreciate your taking the time out of your day to share with me. It helped. Thank you.

[mormom]

From Mormom: All of this feedback has been really helpful. To Piper Alpha — I have no intention of confronting my son-in-law with anything. We fought our battles and called a truce many years ago.

I was just thinking I wish there was some way to help my daughter relax and not take our different approaches to “living the gospel” so hard. I suppose I could do the same thing — but as much as she thinks she is protecting her children from “the world” by using these rigid guidelines, I think she is turning them into intolerant, narrow-minded people. I sent her a wonderful photo of one of my sons working on a project with my elderly brother and she wrote back she would probably have to hide it because of her brother, who is a very sweet, handsome young man who happens to have some body art. She said she is afraid her impressionable sons, who loved their uncles to pieces when they were younger, might think he is cool and want to be like him. It hurt my feelings and made me sad for her sons and my sons and I told her so, but she just blows it all off. She is very focused on using whatever influence she has for as long as she has it in making sure they all get their Eagle Scouts, serve missions, marry int he temple, etc., etc., etc. All good, I guess, but there just has to be some way to raise well-behaved, obedient kids who are also compassionate, empathetic and independent thinkers. She might go for the first two, but the third one seems to be out of the question. Her daughter was not even allowed to read most of the Twilight books until she was fifteen, and they were written by an LDS woman. She read them, but felt some of the subjects covered in the last couple were inappropriate for anyone younger. I digress.

Thank you Andrew for the quote from Samuel and your thoughts on cultural vs doctrinal. Although I didn’t have that very relevant scripture reference to quote, I have tried to point out that in a couple of fruitless discussions with my daughter that a lot of where our differences of opinion come from is just that area. She agreed that Samoans should be allowed to tattoo their torsos and places where earrings were part of the culture should be exceptions but balked immediately when I pointed out that in the 21st century the same argument could be made for earrings and tattoos in the Western World. This whole “the devil made me do it if I am an American” attitude. It reminds me of Owl’s (I think it was Owl) description of Winnie the Pooh stuck in Rabbit’s rabbit hole after eating too much honey: “A wedged bear in a great tightness. In a word, irremovable!” She has the best of intentions. It could be a lot worse, couldn’t it? I will find a way to introduce her children, a totally acceptable way, to the Samuel quote, maybe teaching a FHE lesson on a visit, and continue in my quiet, tired old hippie way, to present an alternative to my grandchildren, who I am great friends with.

I do intend to read Sister Beck’s Women Who Know talk, although it sounds like I’m in for it, and also want to thank whoever posted “Prayer for a Meyers -Briggs ISFJ personality type.

I am amazed at the response to my dilemma and will return daily to see what else shows up. I am still feeling somewhat discouraged by the disparity between myself and my daughter and her discouragement with same.

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