[Mr. Sneelock]

I can totally relate SD. This exact phenomenon has been on my mind for the past few months so thanks for articulating it. I think for a lot of critics the church is “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” and I feel myself playing in to that sentiment. Of course I should be ecstatic when the church makes positive changes but I find myself resenting the fact that the church wasn’t perfect to begin with (like I was previously led to believe).

I appreciate and am encouraged by your example of choosing to celebrate the positive Curt.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Minyan Man wrote:

As I read the postings I’ve asked myself “is traumatized” the right description for what I feel at church?

I agree that trauma is a severe word to use and by using it I would never want to minimize the real trauma that others suffer because of horrible experiences. I am just trying to understand why I experience such intense feelings at church. I can sit through a professional training and disagree completely with what the presenter is saying with no negative emotional reaction.

I think all of your responses have truth to them; I’m probably experiencing a mixture of cognitive dissonance, feelings of betrayal, and a major loss of identity. I also think I experienced a very real emotional trauma when my bishop yanked my temple recommend a year and half ago and those feelings still get stirred up.

I appreciate having others here who relate to what I am experiencing. This faith journey is painful and lonely at times but I always find some peace and healing when I visit this forum.

[Mr. Sneelock]

I can really relate to your conundrum Nibbler. This Sunday I was sitting in Elders Quorum debating with myself whether I should speak up and comment during a lesson about how the prophet will never lead us astray and the grave consequences of disobeying the prophet. The instructor even used the Haun’s Mill massacre as an example of what happens when people don’t heed the prophet’s counsel. I ended up staying quiet because I’m intimidated by the new Elders Quorum full of seasoned High Priests.

One of my biggest motivations for wanting to speak up is when I look around the room during a lesson and wonder who else is withering away inside. I want them to know that they are not alone and that the Church is for us too.

[Mr. Sneelock]

My wife and I have also always considered any income we receive to be “ours” because we are partners in raising a family and we couldn’t do what we do without one another. When I decided that I wanted to stop paying a full 10% to the church I assumed it was going to be a major sticking point or trauma to my wife so I approached her with the concept of her using 5% of my salary (I am the sole breadwinner) to pay tithing if she wanted to. I was pleasantly surprised when she actually turned down the proposition and just wants to pay on her own income (which is hardly anything). She did not explain her decision but I gladly accepted it!

So you never know dande, she just might surprise you!

[Mr. Sneelock]

I can appreciate the approach of choosing to focus on and seek after the things that bring peace into one’s life. I’m glad that the author has been able to find happiness.

I bristle, however, at the argument that feeling negative emotion upon learning information is a sign that the information is false. The author writes about feeling emotional distress after investigating the history of the church then interprets this as evidence of “bitter fruit” for doubting. My question to her would be, “What would you tell an investigator who is in emotional turmoil over the idea of giving up his or her religious traditions and beliefs to join the LDS Church?” “Would you interpret this emotional turmoil as a sign that he or she should stop investigating the church and remain in his or her current religious tradition?”

I just wish there wasn’t such an automatic tendency to fear and demonize questions and doubting within the church. More honesty and empathy would go such a long way toward helping members navigate doubt without becoming bitter or ashamed.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Definitely hard news for me to swallow. I’m trying to keep my reactions in check. I know the decision has nothing to do with me but it feels personal because President Uchtdorf has been the general authority who has kept me spiritually fed and made me feel like there is still a place for me in the church. This kind of demotion (if you can call it that) has hardly ever happened in the history of the church so it just hurts that it had to happen to him.

[Mr. Sneelock]

AmyJ wrote:

Maybe someday I will have the courage when teaching Mosiah 18 to bring these stages of grief into the discussion.

You just have to let us know so we can come listen! 🙂

I home teach a family right now that is losing the father to cancer. In some ways I can see what you guys mean; it’s like we’re not allowed to mourn because that would show a lack of faith in eternal families. I’m just trying to be there to help in practical ways and share my general love for them as a family.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Hi lotsofgray,

I have not been in that exact situation but I am a trained crisis counselor so maybe some of my thoughts can be useful to you. My advice would be to focus on listening to and validating the pain she is feeling without trying to compare it to what others have been through. The first thing people usually need when they are having an emotional crisis is to feel like they are heard and reassured that they are not crazy for feeling the way they do. It sounds like you already have a sincere empathy and concern for this person so I would just start there.

[Mr. Sneelock]

I’m too young to know this, but was there a problem with people leaving the church in 1978 after the priesthood policy was changed? All the personal experiences I have ever heard have been positive, like a feeling of rejoicing and confirmation that the change was coming from God. (Of course I don’t know who would speak up in a Sunday school class and say they wished the change hadn’t been made)

[Mr. Sneelock]

1. You are doing enough! You obviously love and care for your daughter and family. That will always be enough.

2. I would second the idea of getting support from the public school where you live. You can call the school, ask to speak with the speech/language pathologist, then request that your daughter be tested to see if she qualifies for intervention at school. Speech therapists are trained to help with the social aspects of communication and routinely provide that sort of therapy. Some schools will even have a social skills group. School-based intervention is free and if started at an early age can be very effective. I wouldn’t wait and there’s nothing to lose with having her tested. PM me if you have any questions about it.

[Mr. Sneelock]

I really appreciate everyone’s support and response to my story. It seems like there is a lot of interest in the porn issue and I understand that. I feel like I grew up in the first porn-saturated generation. Now society and the church are still trying to figure out exactly what the effects are and how to handle it. I agree with the sentiment that honest, open, non-shaming communication about sex and pornography is the best way to handle the environment in which we live. Removing the shame surrounding the topic will help the overwhelming majority of porn users to break their habit if they choose to do so.

On the other hand I have come to believe that for some people, sex/pornography/lust becomes an addiction as real as alcoholism. For the sexaholic, any unbridled lust or pornography or masturbation becomes increasingly addictive and leads to destructive behavior. Just as the average person can drink occasionally without becoming an alcoholic, the average person can lust/fantasize/look at porn or masturbate without becoming obsessed with sex. If you put that first drink in the hand of an alcoholic, however, all rational thinking flies out the window and he/she is powerless to stop. The same is true for lust with a sexaholic. The more I associate with addicts and read addiction literature, the more I see those traits in myself. Thankfully there are many lines that I have yet to cross (extramarital affairs, prostitutes, etc.) but I can see myself eventually going there if I don’t find recovery.

As far as the marriage goes, every marriage is different and spouses react in various ways to differing levels of betrayal. My wife’s feelings of hurt and trauma are real and in large part caused by my actions. Do upbringing and societal norms also play a role in her feelings? Of course, but those are things that I cannot change so I try to not focus on them. Maybe I was a little dramatic when I said that my marriage will “soon” be over if I don’t recover, but it is not far from the truth. I don’t blame my wife for not wanting to spend another ten years with an active addict. I do have hope for recovery and healing in our marriage as I own up to the damage I have done and seek recovery one day at a time.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Beefster wrote:

Losing a temple recommend in that situation really sucks. Unless there’s more issues underneath you don’t feel comfortable sharing on a public forum, most bishops (at least of those I had) would not revoke a TR for porn/masturbation problems and shaken faith.

Yeah the temple recommend thing had nothing to do with porn, as I had abstained for several months at that point. It was purely a result of me expressing my doubts. I know that the bishop had no ill will toward me, he was just trying to go by the book. Honestly I didn’t care one bit about the temple recommend itself. It was the lost opportunity to confirm my son, missing my sister’s sealing, and being forced to go “public” with my faith crisis that bothered me.

I understand that for a lot of people, porn is not a big deal but it has been for me. I started at such an early age that it impeded my ability to form relationships and has now drained the life out of my marriage. If I can’t find recovery then my marriage will soon be over.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Heber13 wrote:

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to learning from your point of view. Thanks for joining the discussion.

Thanks for your response. Like I said in my OP, I have found this forum to be the most supportive and helpful without being defensive or judgmental.

[Mr. Sneelock]

LookingHard wrote:

I am a firm believer that the “addiction” is inappropriately thrown around in the church. My use of porn went away once I decided occasionally looking at pictures of naked bodies was not all that terrible of a thing and I could do it when I wanted. After decades of struggling the struggle was gone. I no longer seem to have much of any desire and I realized I was deep in a shame cycle.

I agree that the term “addiction” may not fit in the truest sense of the word. I also think that shame has played a major role in keeping me locked in the cycle. Whether or not I truly am an addict, all I know is that approaching it through a framework of addiction recovery (12 steps and professional help) has seemed to help.

[Mr. Sneelock]

Thanks for sharing your story! It must be terribly lonely to feel like an outcast. I am starting to understand the deep trauma that I caused my wife because of my porn/masturbation addiction and dishonesty surrounding it. I can’t even imagine the level of hurt and trauma you have endured.

I can relate to your TBM –> ??? designation. I don’t know exactly how to define my beliefs anymore. I hope you can find some support and understanding here.

[Author]

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