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Thank you for your post. I have to be very honest, I went inactive out of sheer frustration with political extremism. I couldn’t function as a human being. It was like a part of my spirit wasn’t free anymore, like I was confined. It was as if I was being forced to give the “right” answer before I could even ask the questions. I am so sorry for being so off topic. I guess I am just venting.
Years ago I received a special certification from the EPA to work on the “Information Collection Rule” which was to determine biological, chemical and other contaminants present in our water supply. I trained in the Utah State Department of Health’s Water Lab and enjoyed it. As my career progressed, I was given the opportunity to work as a technician doing bone studies. I loved it. All of this gave rise to a question: is water fluoridation safe and effective? I spent months researching this topic, learning and yet craving more knowledge. I felt that somewhere out there, there would be answers. How to reduce dental disease in children, how to build stronger bones in adults, what causes osteosarcoma (bone cancer) and can we prevent it?, I want to know. I loved both sides of the debate, sometimes I would even debate myself, weighing evidence, sorting through paradoxes and contradictions, all the while learning more and more.
I was told that I was a “pawn” for the government, that I hadn’t studied enough, that Ezra Taft Bensen said that, “water fluoridation was a Communist plot to poison Americans” etc. etc. I know it sounds really stupid, but I couldn’t conduct bone studies with biased individuals who had forgone conclusions. I began to search for “fresh minds” to work with me, to teach me, inspire me and help me find the truth. I needed to be around those types of people because that is who I am. I have epilepsy, I sometimes suffer bone fractures due to seizures. I have weak teeth from taking many years of the anti-seizure drug, dilantin. This year, my knee cap fractured. I started to realize that fluoride helps my fractures heal faster, but that the bone isn’t as strong. There is another piece of the puzzle still out there. Fluoride isn’t a demon to me, it is a small part of the answer and I think God wants me to find out what the other parts are.
Extremism is “knowing something you don’t know”, not just closing your mind, but locking it. You can’t grow anymore. You aren’t free to change your mind as you gain new knowledge or insight because you have already “proven” that you are right and everyone else is wrong. It is like locking your soul in a room with no windows. I don’t know if anyone understands. This is just a very small example, I have dozens more, but I’d bore you to death. Thanks for listening.
College tuition is much higher and student loans have increased, making it vital that fresh graduates enter the workforce and start earning enough to pay back loans and establish credit. This is hard for young mothers. Additionally, the Church places the emphasis on marriage, child-bearing and nurturing ahead of education and establishing a career path. One of the most frightening consequence of this is that 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce. This can be especially devastating for young mothers who have to face a competitive job market, find affordable quality daycare, buy a car to get kids to daycare and to get to work – all without a credit score (we are counseled not to use credit) or an education. I found myself in just such a situation. The father of my three young children was declared mentally ill and sent to a Provo Hospital. I had nothing, except three hungry children.
I went back to school, got a job, bought a car and then a house. I learned how vital financial preparedness and economic solvency was for women. I shouldn’t have had to raise three children in poverty. They shouldn’t have had to do without dental care, medical insurance, school clothes, good winter boots, coats etc.
I should have been able to provide for them. If I had to do it all over again, I’d get a solid education before having children. Sure, it would delay child-bearing by 2-4 years (at the most), but is a decade of poverty worth it?
I look at it this way, “why do people enjoy mud wrestling”? Why would anyone pay good money to watch a wrestling match featuring famed Skater Tonya Harding (the Olympic Athlete whose boyfriend beat Olympic contender Nancy Kerrigan). Why do people enjoy conflict?
I have to confess and admit that I enjoy channel surfing and watching Beck verses Keith Olbermann. The two are always at each other’s throats. It is very much like a “verbal form of mud wrestling”. I’ll even throw in the comic, Jon Stewart (the Daily Show) for good measure. We human love to hear debates, contrasting words, comparisons etc. We enjoy seeing and hearing the world around us from difference angles, prospectives and viewpoints. There is almost something in our brain that craves that. I think this is why controversial talk show hosts make sooooo much money. If we didn’t enjoy it, we wouldn’t watch.
Our U.S. Constitution grants us “Freedom of Speech”. Does freedom of speech have limits? Yes. Supreme Court Nominee, Elena Kaagan said that our first amendment rights do have limits. The limit – when our speech harms another human being. Hate speech, purgery, pornography, libel, slander,harassment, the baring of false witness, false advertising, etc. Sometimes, Beck crosses a line. So do his cohorts and many talk show hosts and even newsman. I think that these shows should contain disclaimers that the viewpoints are “views” and may not accurately represent true facts. I didn’t know this, but these men are NOT journalists and their programs are NOT news programs. They aren’t held to the journalist standards of checking and verifying information prior to a broadcast that journalists such as Dan Rather would be held to. They can basically say anything they want . . . . . and so can you.
Thank Ray, for listening. Apologies, if sincere, really help build relationships. My nephew served a mission to Nauvoo Ill. While there, he baptized an older woman who has become a very close family friend. She comes to Salt Lake to spend Christmas with us and we have become just like family. Ironically, my ancestors were driven from Nauvoo and her ancestors where some of the power players in the explosion of the Saints. I’m glad we met her.
Two Christmases ago, my sister hosted two young, German, foreign exchange students in her home. We all sat down to celebrate the birth of Christ, our sister from Nauvoo, our German friends and our family. The past connects us in many ways. We form relationships, sometimes even through war, but when we apologize and are forgiven, a relationship is forged. We become bonded in a deep sense of understanding ourselves and others. We build a future for our children. We never can change the past, but we have full control over the future. We can write our own script. Apostle Paul, formerly Saul of Taurus ultimately built the very church he set out destroy. That is what the gospel is about.
Dear Ray, This meant so much to me:
The state of Illinois has formally apologized for its treatment of the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ Church of Jesus Christ may refer to:
In April, the state House of Representatives passed a resolution apologizing for the state’s treatment of Mormons, who founded Nauvoo, Ill., in 1839, and for the murder in 1844 of Joseph Smith, founder of the church.
A week after the House passed Resolution 793, a group of Illinois officials visited Salt Lake City to announce the state’s apology. In 1846, the new leader of the church, Brigham Young, led tens of thousands of Mormons on a 1,300-mile exodus from Illinois to Salt Lake City following two years of “violent acts against the community of Latter Day Saints This is a list of Latter Day Saints who have attained at least some level of fame and/or success. This list includes adherents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), as well as adherents of related denominations (as labeled). ,” the resolution stated.
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No, Ray we don’t need to go around apologizing for every little misspeak. You are right that we would spend our entire lives saying, “I’m sorry”. Apologies should be reserved for serious violations, misconduct or for the teaching of doctrines that had a direct, severe impact on others.
I want to give Elder McConkie credit for being a faithful and devoted scholar, but a small portion of his work did damage to many members and nonmembers. I hope and pray that the Prophet of the Church will one day stand and issue a formal apology for any harm done by the misconceptions and scriptural misinterpretations of those who were in leadership positions of the Church. I remember as a young seminary student being taught that if a person received so much as one drop of “black blood”, they would be counted as unworthy to hold the priesthood. There were white members of the church who refused blood transfusions from African Americans. I later took basic and Advanced Blood Banking and a course that qualified me to be a manager of a Blood Bank. I now fully realize that refusing to receive a blood transfusion can mean serious harm to a patient, even death. This is why I wish that the Church would open it’s heart and apologize for this. Let the healing begin.
Elder McConkie did “take back” some of the things he said, but he never actually apologized:
THIS IS A COPY AND PASTE FROM WIKKIPEDIA’S PAGE ON ELDER BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
The most well known of these was the statement made by Bruce R. McConkie in his book Mormon Doctrine. McConkie offered the following opinion:
Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin…but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.[5]
These statements by 20th century leaders did not represent thinking that was unique to the Church, but instead reflected ideas which were much more prevalent in society during the 1950’s and 1960’s.
When the priesthood ban was lifted in 1978, McConkie retracted what he had said previously:
Forget everything I have said, or what…Brigham Young…or whomsoever has said…that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.[6]
Modern Church leaders teach that everyone who came to earth in this day was “valiant” in the premortal existence. Elder M. Russell Ballard, talking of today’s youth, said in 2005:
Remind them that they are here at this particular time in the history of the world, with the fullness of the gospel at their fingertips, because they made valiant choices in the premortal existence.[7]
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It would be appropriate to update the Wikkipedia page with a note from the Church Elders and a promise to nurture those of all races.
Green Tea is loaded with antioxidants, but the antioxidants must be released through heating, such as in hot tea. Buying bottled green tea is of little value because the antioxidants are inactivated as the tea sits on the shelve. The only danger I see in “hot drinks” is from burning. I know a little girl who got too close to a coffee brewing machine and split boiling hot coffee down herself.
For this reason, drinks like hot chocolate should be served warm, not hot, when children are around. Same goes for soups. I’ve seen some pretty severe soup burns.
Common sense should be the rule.
Personally, I know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ contains many plain and precious truths that are of an eternal nature. Truth doesn’t change, but our knowledge, awareness and understanding of it does. We are all in slightly different places as far as our knowledge, understanding and acceptance of truth go. Over the years, I have seen some Latterday Saints who were a little ahead of the curve. They may have studied harder, been more diligent, embraced a broader ideology, traveled more etc. Some of these individuals have developed positive attributes such as leadership skills. Many were amongst the first to question Church policies such as not allowing black males to hold the Priesthood.
Unfortunately, I see so many of these individuals disenfranchised, rejected and even excommunicated by the Church. I have become very defensive and I just keep my mouth shut all of the time (except on this forum where many of my posts are deleted by monitors). I am trained as a Scientist and I worked in Biosafety
Safety Level 3 with the most dangerous viruses in Utah. Sometimes, I think my training helped me to “see the entire iceberg, not just the tip” as I had to recognize coming epidemics when only a few strains were isolated. This skill has slowly evolved over about 30 years that I have worked in the field.
I wish the Church would listen to me. They don’t. They never do. There are so many things I wish I could tell them, if only they were open enough to listen. I worked for the Utah State Department of Health and isolated infections from Returned Missionaries. I often wished that I could help them, reason with them.
I confess that I have given up. I stopped attending Church about 1 1/2 year ago. I don’t feel welcome at all. I am always told I am wrong about infectious disease and immunization trends, yet I attending every single Epidemiology meeting at Utah State Department of Health for years and isolated, and identified TB and other infections from Returned Missionaries.
Thanks Ray, I didn’t mean this as a condemnation. I just thought that it was very, very important to note that the Salt Lake City, Unitarian Church regularly invites Mormons
and Returned Missionaries to speak at their meetings. My brother and daughter have spoken their. My son-in-law is a Returned Missionary who was asked to teach the Gospel Studies Sunday School Lesson for adults.
Yes, they DO teach gay couples. I have personally taught many such couples, most of whom were gay male couples who were both infected with HIV. We focus on the positives and I teach basic care of those with viral and other infections. No, it is NOT like teaching the Law of Chastity in the mission field. I worked for the Utah State Department of Health for many years and it is more like the counseling we give in our HIV counseling and testing program.
Ray, I just want the community to know that we DO NEED “Social Justice” Churches. This in the light of attacks on such institutions by the likes of Glenn Beck and others. These Church invite Mormons into their chapels and serve as a bridge to help bring people back to Christ and to help families stay united. We should be grateful for their service to their communities. They are NOT communists, socialists, nazis, liberal extremists and perverts.
By the same token, It is just as disturbing when people criticize the LDS Church as racist, homophobic, “Republican”, radical right wingnut, etc. etc.
All Churches teach some Social Justice. Churches vary in their definition of the Law of Chastity. Some practice polygamy. Some practice celibacy (Catholic Priests). There is a huge difference between Heber C. Kimball and the Pope – about 50 wives! Can’t we just accept that there will be significant differences in how Churches teach and practice the Law of Chastity?
I’m sorry for so many posts, but this is one of my hardest issues with the Church. I wish so much that the LDS Church would just respect the rights of others to worship as they see fit. We have an article of faith to that effect. We have constitutional rights to freedom of religion. Why, please, kindly, explain to me why is it ok to criticize another person’s faith in our own General Conference, especially a faith this has literally been under fire in recent years? Please take a moment and listen to a message from Peter Morales, Leader of the Unitarian Church, a church which advocates for social justice. Morales introduces his stance explaining that he stood in the mass graves of Guatemalan Mayans and read the names of some of those buried. The name “Morales” appeared several times. It seems that there was a deep-seated hatred of the Mayans and a desire to exterminate them, hence their mass slaughter.
The message is that no group of people should be marginalized and hated and that every person should count. Because of these views, they refuse to marginalize gay and lesbian persons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UubcWiTDSvg It never fails to amaze me that slaughtering thousands of Mayans is NOT considered deep sin worthy of standing up and fighting against, but homosexual marriage is. What have we become? We can’t even learn to tolerate those who ARE tolerant.
You know, I’d like to tell you a true story: There was a young Brazillian-Immigrant, Single-Mother convert who joined the Church. Every Sunday, the Missionaries would pick her up for Church, escort her into the chapel and sit with her through Sacrament meeting and Sunday School. Sister Missionaries sat with her during Relief Society. This went on for several weeks while she was investigating and for many weeks after she joined the church. One Sunday, the missionaries where transferred and she was left alone and expected to bring herself to church.
We had met this young lady through my husband’s brother who dated her and eventually married her and she became my sister-in-law, living about 25 miles from us. One Sunday, her husband was away on a business trip and couldn’t take her to church. She called my husband and said she needed a ride to church (the church was two blocks away) and that she couldn’t attend unless she was escorted by a Priesthood Leader. My husband started driving the 25 miles each Sunday to pick her up and take her to church. (Just incidentally, they began to develop a relationship which ultimately led to the end of my marriage). It was so innocent and all started with him just driving her to church and spending time with her as sort of a fellow shipping effort.
I started to contemplate some of the differences in the early Mormon converts and “some” of the converts of today. The early converts would often travel across the Atlantic Ocean alone and even walk across the plains to be with the Saints. I had a great Aunt who was baptized in ice water in Denmark, traveled to England, crossed the Atlantic Ocean and then walked across the plains to Salt Lake City – yea, it was hard. Now, surely there ARE some converts today who are willing to walk for days to get to church, spend weeks traveling to the Temple, etc. etc., but I know far too many women like my sister-in-law. It is sad to say and forgive me, but I see new converts who don’t make the effort to walk a few blocks to church. They expect the missionaries to baby them.
Now contrast this to the Quaker Church: you are expect to get yourself to church each Sunday. You are instructed to arrive 10-15 minutes early. If you are late, they lock the doors – take about teaching promptness and punctuality. They will NOT pick you up for church, they expect you to take the initiative yourself. You are NOT going to be babied.
There was such a contrast in the two churches, the Quaker church being much more like the early LDS Church. Christ commanded that we follow him, he didn’t chase after us. The Quaker Church will NOT allow anyone to convert until they have proven that they are committed enough to get themselves to church on time each Sunday. I might suggest that this would be a good policy for the LDS Church to consider. How committed are these new converts? Can they take the initiative to get themselves to church without missionary assistance each week? I’m not saying that missionaries shouldn’t take time for the first few weeks, but you just can’t baby people forever.
I enjoy reading the BofM, but don’t feel the need to have a conviction about its origins, just its content. My daughter found our favorite cat in an alley about 10 years ago. She was abandoned, cold, wet, hungry and about 2 weeks old. Can’t I just love her without worrying about how she came to be?
Dear Ray, I, personally, do not have any problem with anointing Saints to be “Priests” and “Priestesses” during the Temple Ceremony. I think that it shows reverence and a certain humility as Priests and Priestesses are anointed to serve others and to serve the Lord. It is a calling from God. The term, Priestess is very sacred to women as they learn in the Temple that their calling is of God and is to serve “with” their husbands as one unit. When asked why women do not hold the Priesthood, I always answer, they do, yes, they do.
But, I have to tell you a story. Once there was a young Quaker teen who was unanimously elected Prom King for his High School. He bowed his head softly and said, “I’m not a king”. He didn’t want to be “puffed up” and more especially, he didn’t want to be made superior to his classmates. He had a point. The word, “King” is a very worldly term and we are admonished against having Kings in the BofM. Christ admonishes us to “call no man king”. We are to think of Christ as our only King, our Heavenly King. I thought how wonderful it would be if society would just do away with the “King” and “Queen” stuff at Proms and make all of the young men and women feel special for that night. Make them feel all equally valued, loved, cherished, but society starts the hierarchies early in life. We over inflate the the worth of some, and destroy the self-esteem of others. We refuse to obey Christ’s admonition to, “Esteem they brother as theyself”.
This is one of the reasons stopped going to the Temple, because I do not wish to be anointed to be a “Queen” or “Goddess”. I need to feel my fingers on the earth, touch the dirt as I’m gardening, know that I’m part of that. I’m of the dust. Then I gaze up into the Heavens and I behold the Glory of God. I am on my knees, not standing up. My self esteem comes from that dirt, knowing that if I allow the light from heaven to shine down on me and the rains from on high to nourish me, I can grow and flourish. I can be like unto a tall redwood tree, but I will never be God, I will just be closer to Him.
