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Whatsoever things I see or hear, in my attendance on the sick or even apart there from, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things as sacred secrets. – Hippocratic Oath, 4th Century, B.C.E.
I wish that all of our GA would take this oath. When in the course of a Priesthood Leader’s sacred duties, a young man or woman confesses “same sex attraction”, that information should be kept in the strictest of sacred confidences. There should never be an instance where that private, personal confusion of a troubled young men would end up in a public speech, promoted all over the world via the internet. We live in the “information age”. Elder Hafen’s speech will arrive in Europe at the speed of light. God forbid, that someone could identify the young man who was seen talking with Elder Hafen, yes the young, single, LDS returned missionary who was present at the Stake in Europe that Hafen recently visited – the one of two young men that Hafen requested to counsel with. Gee, I wonder who we are talking about???
Thank you MadamCurie, for all of your thoughts. At this point, I am a little overwhelmed. I work in the Science field, performing laboratory testing. The FDA requires that all methodologies undergo stringent validation. The validation process is complex and strictly statistical – religion and emotions do not come into play.
This same, rigorous validation process is also used when evaluating medications, treatment protocols and psycho therapeutic regimes.
I am simply at a loss for finding proper clinical validation of methodologies employed by Evergreen International or taught at BYU.
I work in Research Park, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Most of my friends work in Research, Genetics, Proteomics, Genetic Counseling, Analytical Biochemistry etc. Many of them are LDS. Personally, I refuse to use an experimental treatment unless it is part of a qualified study and follows all of the medical ethics protocols.
“First do not harm” is the basic foundation in Medical Science. There are also legal implications for promising cures when no scientifically valid studies are provided to back up the claim. Elder Hafen was a Dean of BYU School of Law, so he should know this.
I want to give Elder Hafen the reverence and respect he desires. He is likely a devoted, kind, sincere servant of the Lord. His speech, however, totally lacked legal, moral, ethical and scientific clarity.
Sadly, I suspect that Elder Hafen is just suffering from the onset of mental decline that so often comes with age.
Hafen spent a large portion of his talk, held during a Sunday-like service, criticizing the gay-rights movement and denying a biological link to sexual orientation. Same-sex attraction is “not in your DNA,” he said. The above is from the posted article.
I confess, I just don’t understand why Hafen would say that.
Thanks, Madam The Church often refers to “Same Sex Attraction”. This is what was referred to in several of the GA’s speeches.
There are many patients with “Gender Identity Issues” who are lumped into the category of “Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transsexual”. I have sat quietly for many years as members of my church have condemned all of them, shouting “Lesbian” at a patient with 5 alpha reducase deficiency, for example. I have sat by quietly whilst the Utah State Legislator has formally legalized discrimination against these patients. I have watched their right to marry be denied. I have learned of the suicides of patients with sexual variance. I have stood silently as others were murdered in hate crimes. I see these patients called “homosexual” almost daily – and worse names. I want to know what the GAs are doing to help these patients adjust, to help them cope, to help them adapt, to love them, to accept them, when it is NOT possible for them to change.
This is a copy and paste from Evergreen International, the official organization who the Church contracts with to “treat” members with SSA: Evergreen Response to APA Report
August 10, 2009
In light of the recent report titled “Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation” from the Society for the Psychological Study of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Issues to the American Psychological Association at their annual convention, Evergreen International reiterates its unwavering commitment to the doctrines and standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We appreciate the report’s recognition of the centrality of religious faith in the lives of many individuals who may seek psychological care. Evergreen International urges counseling professionals to support Latter-day Saints who believe that sexual behavior is to be reserved for a marital relationship between one man and one woman, and understand that a foundational principle of Church doctrine is the belief that it is the responsibility and opportunity of every person to grow and change throughout their lifetime to become more like the Savior in every aspect of their being.
Evergreen International continues to teach this essential doctrine of growth and change, so we note with interest the study “Ex Gays? An Extended Longitudinal Study of Attempted Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation” released at a symposium at the same meeting of the American Psychological Association by psychologists Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse showing that sexual orientation change is not only possible, but sustainable.
END OF COPY AND PASTE:
Honestly, I do not have a problem with this. My objection has been that 1 out of 6 persons who “suffer” from SSA have an actual, biologically based, physiological condition. I am very concerned when untrained “professionals” attempt to diagnosis, prescribe treatment and give a prognosis without having all of the credentials.
Here is a list of why parents and Church Leaders need to have competent medical consultation before determining the cause of SSA:
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (little boys born without testosterone receptors)
5 Alpha Reductase Deficiency (little boys that are missing an enzyme that converts testosterone to the biologically active steroid – dihyrotestosterone (DHT)
Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia in females (little girls born with external male genitalia because their adrenal glands produced large quantities of male sex hormones)
Klinefelter’s Syndrome – little boys born with an extra chromosome – XXY genotype
Sex Chromosome Mosiacs – some cells have XY, some body cells have XX
Prenatal Exposure to the powerful estrogen DES – 10 Million pregnant women given DES during pregnancy to help prevent miscarraige – (approximately 1 in 4 girls born with SSA)
Prenatal Exposure the Methamphetamine – Methamphetamine can cross the placenta, enter fetal brain and disrupt “Androgen Imprinting”, resulting in “sexual dypsphoria” – child not knowing what gender he or she truly is.
Prenatial Exposure to Thyroid Hormone Replacement Therapy (Mom’s with thyroid conditions)
and the list goes on and on and on
I have consistently seen member of the LDS Church who suffer from SSA who have NOT been properly diagnosed or treated. Some of these conditions, such as DES exposure can dramatically increase the risk of cancer – missing a diagnosis can be deadly. Bishops have referred patients who have suffered from prenatal exposure to Methamphetamine for treatment for SSA. These patients are then deprived of the care that they need. This is heartbreaking for me. Adult survivors of methamphetamine exposure can recover, but their recovery is very slow – Evergreen’s treatment programs are designed to work quickly. Patients that don’t progress rapidly become discouraged and even suicidal. Honestly, these little patients are frequently born premature, they suffer from developmental delays, the may have neurological problems, learning disabilities etc. They have often been in and out of foster care homes – one child had been in four foster care homes before he was 11. These young adults can have the emotional development of a 15 year old – all because of developmental delays. Some of these “fix it quick” outfits like Evergreen don’t even try to diagnose the problem and deal with all of the issues associated with the condition. They may not address the predisposition that the person has for developing drug addiction. They may not address abandonment issues, learning disabilities etc.
Yea, this Evergreen promises the world and the Church is sucked in, pays good money, keeps believing against evidence to the contrary and just flat out refuses to use scientifically validated methodologies. I have offered to assist the Church. They totally refuse my help, claiming they have their own people. Jon Huntsman Senior has offered to pay for medical services such as cancer screening – the Church doesn’t want his help. Former Governor Jon Huntsman has offered help via the University of Utah – the Church isn’t interested.
I just want to go on record the the LDS Church has been offered help by competent medical professionals – and they have chosen Evergreen. It is their choice, not mine.
I apologize for having to leave this thread. There are a few things that I wanted to add. As far as the “sanctuary” that Daniel spoke of “being cleansed”, I sort of think of it as the literal burning of the Original Navoo Temple – cleansing by fire.
The Navoo temple was built, destroyed, burned and then rebuilt and rededicated, this time to stand forever. Could this be a symbolic of the spiritual cleansing of our mortal “sanctuaries”, and the rebuilding
and rededicating of ourselves to Christ?
This to me, would be both a literal and figurative fulfillment of Daniel’s prophetic dream.
Months before JS died, he instructed one of the brethren to “take the Saints out West”. This happened in a brick building in Navoo. Smith was then asked, “how long the Saints would suffer persecution and be “trodden under foot”. Again, this may be the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy where he say two Saints speaking.
JS also prophesied that the Saints would one day be free from their enemies. Some of the Church’s worst enemies were in the State of Illinois, where Smith was martyred and the Saints expelled. It is comforting to note that my nephew was called to serve a Mission to Navoo Illinois several years ago. While serving, the Governor of Illinois issued a formal apology to the LDS Church. The Navoo Temple has been rebuilt and rededicated, more beautiful than ever. We are at peace with the people of Illinois.
A little lady convert, taught by my nephew, came to SLC to meet our family and see Utah. She joined us for Christmas Dinner. We were one family in Christ.
Thanks to those of you who have replied. I have often pondered and prayed on this issue. I think to understand what is righteousness, we have to understand what is sin?
I reflect upon the left of Christ. He stood accused of the greatest sin that a Jewish Man could commit, that of blasphemy for He claimed, “before Abraham was, I Am”. Christ not only attested to His very eternal existence, He identified Himself as the very God of the Old Testament. He was charged and crucified.
The problem was, Christ was God. Had he NOT attested to His own divinity and eternal nature, He would have been lying.
Another innocent man, stood charged with adultery, the sin next to murder. To all those who did not understand polygamy, JS was an adulterer. He lamented that many had cried that he had sinned when he had not sinned.
To “cry that another has sinned” is a bold act. How do we know that what appears to us to be sin is not sin? So many innocent people have been put to death. Satan is known as the, “accuser of his brothern” for a reason.
JS wrote extensively on sin. He claimed that all little children were innocent before God whilst most other faiths claimed that children were born with original sin upon their souls.
How beautiful are the BOM teachings that “little children are alive in Christ”. JS also taught that persons must be “capable and accountable” which may have given mercy to those born with feeble minds or severe mental illness. How blessed is the Grace of God. Smith goes on to describe redemption of the dead and “all those who died without the law”. The process of repentance would provide for those who had broken the law.
I see the salvation as taught by JS was all-encompassing as contrasted to the ideologies of his day such as Calvinism which taught that only a select or chosen few could be saved.
I feel that it is a very serious thing to accuse someone of having sinned. I am not taking about charging someone with breaking a law, I am talking about accusing someone of sinning. There will be times, when we must confront a child, a spouse or a friend and admonish them of their errors. I believe that this is best done by someone very close to the individual, who knows the person very well and understands the facts and circumstances behind events. For example, a husband who knows that his wife is drinking too much. He may also know that his wife has been arrested for drunk driving etc. The person who confronts the “sinner” should be someone who loves and cherishes that person and can help her to repent.
My biggest concern for this Church is that some of us have started to cry “sinner” and “shame on you” to those we have never even met. We may have no vested interest in that person’s salvation or well-being. If I, for example, have a close friend who is gay, I want to talk to him privately about the dangers that he may be exposing himself to. I want to bake him a chocolate cake then take him to the gym to work off all of the calories. I want to hug him and then teach him how to stay HIV negative. He, in turn, can tell me kindly that I’m getting too fat, monitor me for 90 minutes on the elliptical and confiscate my brownies that are hidden under the front seat of my car. He can also inform me that my “spicy salsa” hair dye makes me look like Shawn White, the “Flying Tomato”.
If I haven’t known you, told you that I love you, cared for you, I don’t have the right to call you a sinner. Christ can call us to repentance because He knows us, He loves us and He cares for us. Calling someone to repentance is just a first step. We then must be willing to stand by that person and help them adjust, cope and repent. Shouting, “sinner” and then just running away isn’t what the gospel was supposed to be about.
Here is an interesting link: http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/objections.html Some believed that the administration of anesthetic to birthing mothers was “a sin”, citing biblical references to “in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children”.
How different this is from Christ’s own words, “Behold, I God have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer”.
I had to stop and care for some crying grandchildren. I think that politicians can deceive even the very elect. If you look at the debates going on – even highly intelligent people can become confused. I do like and respect many politicians on both sides of the isle, but I think far too many have become experts at twisting and distorting truth to make it conform to their own agendas. It’s just a little like me trying to squeeze into those tight jeans that are two sizes to small – I have the classic “muffin top” of fat rolling over the top. I can only hold in my stomach for so long until the truth just spills out!!!!
Look, there is a song by the band, “Buffalo Springfield”, the words go something like this:
“There’s battle lines being drawn, nobody’s right when everybody’s wrong”.
I need there to be someone who IS right. Not some right wing or left wing extremist, but someone who is actually RIGHT.
Dear Ray, I have always believed that the Lord’s intent was to establish His Kingdom of God on Earth (the Church) with a mechanism to cleanse itself, set itself aright, and realign itself with truth and the Will of God. That way is “continuing revelation” through a Prophet, Seer and Regulator”. Any Church that does not have a living prophet would be hard-pressed to “Navigate the Shoals” of modern society. Figuratively, our ships would be stuck in the mud and we would be unable to make any progress. A great leader is like a giant sea ship – an ice-breaker that can plow right through the toughest iceberg without breaking and sinking the ship. A great leader is like a ship’s captain who knows the sea, knows his way by moonlight and steers around the shoals. The greatest leader of all – Christ, could ever calm the waves of the stormy sea.
What I fear most right now, is that politics is like a stormy sea. It has high tides, low tides, waves and even tsunamis. The boat will be “rocked” as we travel. Some days the sun will shine and others, storm clouds will gather.
Sometimes, I see politicians like “evil captains” who through men overboard, to drowned at the depths of the sea. Sometimes I see “mutinies”. Sometimes I see politicians as “Pirates” ready to steal for their own gain. Sometimes I see politicians who are “lost at sea” or who “sink the ship”.
I want the Prophet of the Church to stay out of public politics – let the dead bury the dead, so to speak. I don’t want him to try to legislate morality or control which Propositions are passed or not passed. I want him to be a Prophet. I fear that politics can cloud ones judgment and even grieve the Spirit to the point where revelation cannot be received by members of the Church. I’m scared, scared for the Church.
Thanks so much, Bridge, Everything I have learned about Medical Ethics and how to treat individuals with genetic disorders (including those with disorders of sexual development and differentiation) I learned from the Germans.
We had a training film starring James Watson (Watson and Crick elucidated the structure of DNA). Watson tours the gas chambers where human beings were euthanize simply because they were the wrong race, the wrong sexual orientation or had some feebleness. After watching that film, and hearing the German survivors of WW2 speak, I had a renewed determination to not just learn Medical Ethics, but to PRACTICE IT.
I had served briefly on the Utah State Department of Health’s Genetic Screening Improvement Committee. I realize that human life is so much more than just DNA – our genes, our race or our sexual orientation. Our Creator has such a “higher purpose” and it is our mission to learn it.
Since WW2, the Germans have become the leader in teaching other nations how to practice the highest ethical standards, in medicine and in human rights. I aspire to achieve what they have accomplished and want to bring those standards to Utah.
Yea, I am excited for the movie. I understand that Haley Joel Osmoth, an acclaimed actor, will portray Helmuth. There are very few films which portray LDS youth in historical settings and so this is unique. It is very interesting that the Nazi Resistance was lead by a 17 year old, German, Latterday Saint Youth. He paid with his own life. I am looking forward to a movie about his life, entitled, Truth and Treason. Dear Friends, The Utah political, conservative scene has been very difficult for me to deal with emotionally.
Some of you know that I am a literal descendant of polygamists on both sides of my family. My great-grandfather, Hurst had two wives, my great-grandmother and her younger sister. This young family suffered from some of the most severe persecution imaginable. The family had converted to Mormonism and crossed the plains to be with the Saints in Utah. They thought that they would be safe. The ended up having to leave the United States and move to Mexico where they, and others like them, formed a small colony of LDS Polygamists who didn’t want to give up their families. It was sad for me to think that their was not one place in the United States where they could live in peace and safety.
What grieves me the most is that our “conservative politics” have now pushed us to the point where we are causing other families to have to leave the United States for countries such as Canada. Persons with disorders of sexual development and differentiation are not legally allowed to marry persons of their choosing in Utah, so some couples have had to leave their homes, their families and head for Canada. If they ever try to return to Utah, their marriages will be invalid.
I will never understand, as long as I live, how we got to this point. How did a little flock of people, so persecuted because they did not practice conventional, traditional marriage, become the persecutors of those who today do not fit the traditional family mold?
There was nothing “conservative” about Heber C. Kimball having 43 wives. How did we get to where we are today?
