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Dear Justme, I understand those who are conflicted with “Science and Religion” debate.
I was once reading about a scientist who believed in Christ because “They have never found His body”. His thesis was that Christ had to have been resurrected because no person had ever found the actual Body of Christ,ego some supernatural event must have taken place. If, per chance, the physical Body of Christ were to be discovered, he would abandon his belief in Christ.
Obviously, this man’s entire belief is based on “proof” and not on faith. It is hard to explain that a 14 year old Virgin, bore the Son of God – in science things like that just don’t happen.
The resurrection is even more counter to what science would teach.
What I do know is that there are forces, powers and laws in the universe that we don’t yet understand. Today, for example, a virgin giving birth is NOT so incredible – if you work for an infertility clinic and have a sperm donor available. Science has also discovered genes within the human genome that if activated will direct the cell to repair itself. A substance called trans-resveratrol can bind to human DNA and activate the gene of cellular repair. We could then, theoretically live forever, constantly repairing our own cells. Our bodies are actually designed for immortality and eternal life, not mortality and eternal death. Trans-resveratrol is found in wine.
Note: that wine is used in the scriptures as a symbol of eternity. Christ performed His very first miracle at a wedding, changing water into wine. To me, that is a symbol of changing something temporal into something eternal. Wine is now a symbol of eternal life and recreation. I have learned to simply use science to affirm my testimony, rather than destroy it.
Thanks, George, I don’t want to get too graphic here, after all this is an LDS thread.
Sometimes I come home from working in an Endocrinology Laboratory and just need to vent about the treatment of some of the patients. I just realize that we all have to work if we are going to effect a change.
Thanks George, I have always loved and respected the Navajo. I honor their sacred traditions. They claim that they have been mistreated by the government on issues such as “neglect of the hanta virus epidemic”, exposure to nuclear fall-out from nuclear testing etc. etc.
Now, a few of them have come forward with concerns that they may not be able to have marriages legally recognized in Utah, California etc.
I know that I AM ON A SOAP-BOX. I will be the very first to admit that I AM A LIBERAL LEFT WING ZEALOT WHO JUST HAPPENED TO LAND IN THE MORMON CHURCH. But honestly, I love these people so much. I also love the Church, but I can’t reconcile the Church’s stand on certain issues and this is one of them. I told the Navajo’s once that I would stand up for them. Honestly, I am like a tiny snowflake and the Church and State are giant snowplows. I know that in the end, I will just be plowed out of the way. Person’s with this rare genetic disorder may one day be extinct in the United States what with Hanta Virus, Nuclear fallout, castration, reservation, poverty etc. etc.
I just want to be able to say that at least one little snow flake stood up for their right to marry – before the snowplow comes.
Off topic and pure speculation but I have wondered how this particular mutation arrived in the New World. My personal theory (nothing scientific to back it up) is that it was brought over by Nephi, Lamen and Lemual’s WIVES. Yep the wives, the women. Men with this condition have a very low sperm count and may suffer from some infertility issues. They may have one child, but a large amount of children would be rare.
The opposite is true of women with this condition. The enzyme, 5 alpha reductase changes testosterone to DHT, but THERE IS NO KNOWN USE FOR DHT IN WOMEN. The women who carry this gene are perfectly normal and healthy. There might be one difference though. Because women do make small amount of testosterone (yes they do!) and because these gals could not convert testosterone to DHT, they had higher natural levels of testosterone. This would have produced a perfectly healthy lady with a tendency toward large muscles (because of the testosterone) a good sex drive and an adventitious spirit. This gals are tough.
Nephi said that his wife and the wives of his brothers were, “Strong, like unto men and that they did give much suck in the wilderness”. Now there’s a bunch of sisters with 5 alpha reductase deficiency (according to my imagination). Oh course these women were strong, what else would you expect?
My other purely speculative and nonscientific explanation of how and why this mutation appears in the Old World, the New World and the Pacific Islands is that these women were mariners of the sea – they traveled the ocean.
AND SO WHAT if there sons were occasionally born eunuchs – they had POLYGAMY. All it takes is just one fertile man to keep the population from extinction and if the Lord felt a need to command polygamy to keep this remnant of the House of Israel alive – He just went ahead and did it. They didn’t have all of these obstacles in Family Law, they had God.
I know that I am using very harsh words, but I also prefer the ancient Navajo tradition to the modern Utah culture of “castration, isolation, take away all your rights and excommunicate you” for obvious reasons. I think that part of the restoration is to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ to what it used to be when it was in its pure form. The Lord’s intentions were then so clear. The Navajo claim that intersex children can grow up to do anything that other children can do – even be a Prophet of God and that intersex conditions should in no way impede a child’s spiritual progress or eternal journey. Some Navajo believe that their ancestors with this disorder were prophets and have gone on to receive an eternal and everlasting reward. One of these prophets was alleged to have married and even fathered a child (this is a small miracle because men with this disorder have a low sperm count), but still there are reported cases of men with this condition fathering children. That is why I don’t want to see them castrated. Some Navajo believe that the child of this man was a prophet and his son was a prophet. This is why I get soooooo upset over this marriage debate. Here are some links:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2103/is_n3_v28/ai_n28708248/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha-reductase_deficiency More info from a copy and paste:
What is 5-alpha reductase deficiency?
5-alpha reductase deficiency is a condition that affects male sexual development before birth and during puberty. People with this condition are genetically male, with one X and one Y chromosome in each cell, and they have male gonads (testes). Their bodies, however, do not produce enough of a hormone called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT has a critical role in male sexual development, and a shortage of this hormone disrupts the formation of the external sex organs before birth.
Many people with 5-alpha reductase deficiency are born with external genitalia that appear female. In other cases, the external genitalia do not look clearly male or clearly female (sometimes called ambiguous genitalia). Still other affected infants have genitalia that appear predominantly male, often with an unusually small penis (micropenis) and the urethra opening on the underside of the penis (hypospadias).
During puberty, people with this condition develop some secondary sex characteristics, such as increased muscle mass, deepening of the voice, development of pubic hair, and a growth spurt. The penis and scrotum (the sac of skin that holds the testes) grow larger. Unlike many men, people with 5-alpha reductase deficiency do not develop much facial or body hair. Most affected males are unable to father a child (infertile).
Children with 5-alpha reductase deficiency are often raised as girls. About half of these individuals adopt a male gender role in adolescence or early adulthood.
How common is 5-alpha reductase deficiency?
5-alpha reductase deficiency is a rare condition; the exact incidence is unknown. Large families with affected members have been found in several countries, including the Dominican Republic, Papua New Guinea, Turkey, and Egypt.
Ray, I will have to go to work and get some of my Endocrinology books to provide more references and info.
I also found this interesting: # Late Egyptian (1300 BC 700 BC)
Records of this stage appear in the second part of the New Kingdom, considered by many as the “Golden Age” of ancient Egyptian civilization. It contains a rich body of religious and secular literature, comprising such famous examples as the Story of Wenamun and the Instructions of Ani. It was also the language of Ramesside administration. Late Egyptian is not totally distinct from Middle Egyptian, as many “classicisms” appear in historical and literary documents of this phase. However, the difference between Middle and Late Egyptian is greater than that between Middle and Old Egyptian. It’s also a better representative than Middle Egyptian of the spoken language in the New Kingdom and beyond. Hieroglyphic orthography saw an enormous expansion of its graphemic inventory between the Late Dynastic and Ptolemaic periods.
COPY AND PASTE FROM:
http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptlanguage.html The article states that the period of 1300 BC to 700 BC (about 100 years before Lehi set sail for the Americas) was the “Golden Age” in Egypt and that Egyptian writings contained
a “rich body of religious and secular literature”.
My sister is an English and Spanish teacher and has always told me that in order for students to become proficient in language, they must read a wide variety of quality literature.
I am so saddened when people criticize the concep that the BOM was written in Egyptian (reformed, or shorthand Egyptian to fit on plates) because the language was so rich and spiritual at the time.
As far a the language of Reformed Egyptian, I forgot to mention that the Prophet, Moses was also raised in Egypt, in the palace. Abraham’s wife, Hagar was an Egyptian princess and had also been raised in the palace. My understanding is that Moses, Hagar and Joseph would have had opportunities to learn Egyptian. Abraham may have learned Egyptian from Hagar.
Jesus Christ was also exiled into Egypt as a young child. “From Egypt I have called my Son”.
I think that there may be a reason why many major Prophets and even the Savior Himself where reared in Egypt and allowed to learn the Egyptian language – it was so far advanced for its time. It is possible that the Lord wanted these Prophets and even the Son of God to have an excellent education, to learn to read and write proficiently. These skills were likely just as important anciently as they are today.
As all of you know, Joseph, son of Jacob (Israel) was sold into Egypt by his own brothers. You will remember him as the Joseph with the coat of many colors. As a young man sold as a slave into Egypt, Joseph was a “quick study”. He was highly intelligent and so insightful and spiritual that he was summoned by Pharaoh to interpret a dream. Joseph did, interpret the dream correctly and became a trusted adviser in Egypt. It was there that he learned and became proficient in the language of the Egyptians. He likely read and wrote fluently in Egyptian and taught that language to his own children.
When we speak of the “Stick of Joseph” or the BOM, we have to remember that Joseph was separated from his brothers (his brother Judah included) and that there would be a significant language divergence between Joseph and Judah at that time. This was actually very important because the Egyptians were so far advanced scientifically, medically and even linguistically (in certain respect).
It is no surprise that the BOM was written in reformed Egyptian given the history of Joseph in Egypt.
Molecular Biology didn’t develop the DNA probe or the Polymerase Chain Reaction until about 3 decades ago. At first, these technologies were used to identify bacteria, such as TB and human DNA. They also began to use these techniques for forensic science, criminology and paternity testing.
Recently, Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) and DNA probes has been applied to ancient archeology, population genetics and biology. We will have to be able to “UNLEARN” everything we thought we knew about elephants, oxen, horses etc. in Precolumbian America. We are and will be discovering new species and reclassifying old species. Old theories of extinction will be supplanted as new theories are advanced.
One note is that these techniques are extremely expensive and few technicians can apply them correctly without contaminating DNA during PCR. This has impeded the work. Federal funding for these projects has dried up with the poor economy.
Modern Molecular Biology meets Book of Mormon is a great topic. Some scientists are already starting to use the BOM for dates and places. One said to me, “We don’t know that the BOM is not true, so we might as well use it for clues”. They have been able to find some very interesting things using the BOM for “clues”. I have to rush to work, so I will have to discuss this later. Bye for now.
I am going to continue the thread on “Elephants in America” in this discussion. Modern archeology has begun to advance to the point where new techniques have developed. One such technique was the ability to identify horse genetic material on the spear or arrowhead that was used to kill wild animals for food. A new theory of pre-Columbian equine (horse) extinction has been formulated – that horses were hunted for food by ancient Americans.
There is so much we do not know about the ancient American flora and fauna. I once saw a wonderful film (that I highly recommend called, “Wild America”). The ancient wild America was, apparently, much richer and more diverse than ever previously thought. Many large, free-range-roaming herbivores once grazed the plains of the Americas. The theories and timing of their ancient extinction will be reexamined using modern technology.
What I get out of this is that it is important to protect our animals from extinction and that man can be a factor in directly causing extinctions, not just climate changes such as the end of the ice age. We can all be better stewards of this earth and its non-humane inhabitants.
Oh, I so totally understand you!!!!! I don’t even try to fit in. The Church doesn’t want me and the only reason that I try to attend church is because my little visiting teacher has worked so hard to keep me in the Church.
Here is one of my favorite pictures of the President of Paraguay comforting a leper:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0frO4wGaNh9qs/610x.jpg This new President of Paraguay, Fernando Lugo, was a Catholic Bishop. He begged to be released in 2006, but the Vatican would not allow it. He has now announced that he, a Catholic Bishop, has a two year old son.
Well, I have just one thing to say to you Fernando (guy who broke your vow of celibacy) -CONGREGATIONS DADDY!! Where do I send the baby gift?????
You see, I am just to forgiving and too liberal.
I love your post. I just wanted to share a picture of Paraguay President Elect lovingly caring for a leprosy patient:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0frO4wGaNh9qs/610x.jpg Oh, how I wish that we could return to charity. I love to read about how Christ healed the lepers, “be thou clean”. How glorious it must have felt to be healed physically, emotionally and spiritually. How wonderful to feel whole and clean and loved by the Savior. To me, that is charity.
I just finished writing about prenatal exposure to methamphetamine. It appears that exposure to this drug may interfere with androgen imprinting (the process that occurs in fetal life that gives the brain gender orientation). So, along with various and assorted neurological problems, premature birth, low birth weight, attention deficit disorder, drug withdrawal symptoms at birth these innocent survivors of methamphetamine exposure may be homosexual. And it gets worse. Methamphetamine use is the number 1 cause of removal of a child from the home and placement in foster care. I just spoke with one young person who had been in 4 foster care homes before he was 11 – lots of confusion about families, relationships, love and sexuality.
My new philosophy is PREVENTATIVE TOXICOLOGY. I completely an advance course in clinical toxicology – all diagnostics. Now, all I want to know is,”how to we prevent the unborn from being exposed to meth”?
Oh and yea, over-the-counter diet drugs that contain amphetamines can also cause homosexuality. Why the he@@ are we allowing those drugs to be legal?
I see these ultra, right-wing conservative, LDS anti-gay crusaders who knowingly allow there own children to use illegal drugs – intravenous injections and all. If you really are that opposed to homosexuality, go home and check your teenagers veins.
